"varaan" as a postposition meaning "on"/ "supported by"

[linforcer]

I encountered the sentence "Rakennetaan sen sijaan paalujen varaan." ,apparently to be translated along the lines of ""We'll build it on poles instead" (referring to a pile foundation for a house).

I was wondering if I should see this as a postposition related to "varalta" ("in case"), and that the relationship between "varaan" and "vara"("backup, reserve") is such that in both cases the word the postposition appears after "backs up" something else.

As in the structural integrity of the poles backs up the house... and in varalta things are backed up in that "in case" can mean that one "reserves something for the case of"

varaan also appears in "laskea varaan" (to count on)

Am I thinking to deeply about this, and if not, does that make "varaan" a fully fledged (if not very productive) postposition?
I ask because I could not find a seperate entry for it in either of my dictionaries and is only referred as the illative of vara and the (I assume unrelated) first person singular of varata.

Hope I'm not boring the regulars yet...

[Jukka Aho]

I encountered the sentence "Rakennetaan sen sijaan paalujen varaan." ,apparently to be translated along the lines of ""We'll build it on poles instead" (referring to a pile foundation for a house).

Sounds like a counter-suggestion to someone’s earlier suggestion, so maybe “Let’s build (it) on poles, instead. [mmmkay?]” Depends a bit on the preceding context.

I was wondering if I should see this as a postposition related to "varalta" ("in case"), and that the relationship between "varaan" and "vara"("backup, reserve") is such that in both cases the word the postposition appears after "backs up" something else.

As in the structural integrity of the poles backs up the house... and in varalta things are backed up in that "in case" can mean that one "reserves something for the case of"

varaan also appears in "laskea varaan" (to count on)

Am I thinking to deeply about this, and if not, does that make "varaan" a fully fledged (if not very productive) postposition?

laskea jonkin varaan → olla jonkin varassa

Both could be understood literally or figuratively. The literal meaning is something like “to be held/propped up by”, “to be held afloat by”, “to be supported (at a certain level/height) by” whereas the figurative meaning is closer to “to be dependent on”.

VISK § 689 categorizes jonkin varassa as an adposition.

[Rob A.]

I encountered the sentence "Rakennetaan sen sijaan paalujen varaan." ,apparently to be translated along the lines of ""We'll build it on poles instead" (referring to a pile foundation for a house).

Sounds like a counter-suggestion to someone’s earlier suggestion, so maybe “Let’s build (it) on poles, instead. [mmmkay?]” Depends a bit on the preceding context.

Wiktionary offers this:

rakentua +genitive +varaan = "to be based on, be founded on, be grounded in"....about 1/3 of the way down the page.

Rakennetaan sen sijaan paalujen varaan.

Therefore:
Rakennetaan ="Let us build"
sen sijaan = "instead"
paalujen varaan = "based on poles."

It seems to be a bit of an idiomatic expression....

and varaan would be a postposition here and paalu is in genitive because almost all postpositions call for the use of the genitive....

The term, "adposition", is the catchall for these types of grammatical bits..."preposition", "postposition"...and new to me..the term, "circumposition"...apparently an example of a circumposition in English is, "from now on"....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prepositio ... stposition

[Jukka Aho]

The term, "adposition", is the catchall for these types of grammatical bits...

Maybe favored in VISK because of the somewhat ambivalent nature of the word order in Finnish sentences. Instead of paalujen varaan, you could use varaan paalujen... it just sounds like a poetic reversal. Not really suitable for straightforward prose but I wouldn’t bat an eyelid if I heard it in a song or something.

[linforcer]

You guys are a fountain of information. Thanks a bunch!