Previous employment experience and other questions.

BirchBrook · Post by **BirchBrook** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:58 am

I maybe moving to Finland quite soon. I'm getting a bit of help to start with living. I just wanted to know how well I could adapt with some of my previous employment experience. I worked for an online marketing company for 4 years doing advertising campaigns for large companies like WB, Sony, MTV. From that I branched out into doing sales related work in the tourism industry in San Francisco but for other large corporations as well like Canon (the camera company). I am no master of Finnish language so I wouldn't be able to do any direct sales towards Finnish residents obviously but I am learning quickly. Some skills from previous employment are Sales, Marketing, Customer Relations, Employee management.

I do not have much Uni credentials. Unfortunately in the US if you want a Bachelors degree you will need to go into major credit debt . It wasn't feasible to me because I earned more income than many graduates in my employment. I obviously have self motivation and a an entrepreneurial spirit and am quite a skilled, talented and intelligent person.

I love Finland so much I wonder if I could work in tourism and perhaps promote tourism in Finland.

With my skill set and experience above, what would Finnish residents suggest? Perhaps I could niche my way into the tourism industry there?

If I were to move to Finland how easy would it be for me to take trade courses or other related classes? Say if I were married and a resident. I am only 31 so still quite young and eager obviously. I'm living in America now (not that it matters but you may understand now why I say I love Finland and wish to move) but I was originally born and raised in Europe and am an EU citizen.

**Sponsor:**

Rick1 · Post by **Rick1** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:33 pm

The world is just a skippy ball, you just sit on it and everything will happen your way. I obviously have self motivation and a an entrepreneurial spirit and am quite a skilled, talented and intelligent person.
No problem. You are lucky Pursuivant and the others have not seen you yet

With my skill set and experience above, what would Finnish residents suggest Do the work that they do not want to do?

BirchBrook · Post by **BirchBrook** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:41 am

No, I've actually worked quite hard and my general demeanor isn't as a skippy happy person where everything goes according to plan. Life is difficult and complicated most of the time and not some simple thing obviously. I'm not sure what you mean by the last sentence, but I've noticed someone else has that username "Pursuivant" on here and they post actively in other threads. Have they inspired you to be such a bitter person?

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:14 am

BirchBrook wrote:I maybe moving to Finland quite soon. I'm getting a bit of help to start with living. I just wanted to know how well I could adapt with some of my previous employment experience. I worked for an online marketing company for 4 years doing advertising campaigns for large companies like WB, Sony, MTV. From that I branched out into doing sales related work in the tourism industry in San Francisco but for other large corporations as well like Canon (the camera company). I am no master of Finnish language so I wouldn't be able to do any direct sales towards Finnish residents obviously but I am learning quickly. Some skills from previous employment are Sales, Marketing, Customer Relations, Employee management.

Well, you could try to pitch yourself to advertising companies here. http://mtl.fi/

BirchBrook wrote:I do not have much Uni credentials. Unfortunately in the US if you want a Bachelors degree you will need to go into major credit debt . It wasn't feasible to me because I earned more income than many graduates in my employment. I obviously have self motivation and a an entrepreneurial spirit and am quite a skilled, talented and intelligent person.

Degrees are liked here, but having degree from University of Neverheard wouldn't help you much. The people who are hiring probably know what Finnish universities teach, but do they know what U of N does?

I'd add to your list an American attitude. Skilled, talented and intelligent might be fine attributes to highlight there, but here it makes you seem like stuck-up person here.

BirchBrook wrote:I love Finland so much I wonder if I could work in tourism and perhaps promote tourism in Finland.

With my skill set and experience above, what would Finnish residents suggest? Perhaps I could niche my way into the tourism industry there?

I'd say you could. http://www.mek.fi/w5/meken/index.nsf/%2 ... ganisation note that MEK is governmental agency, so working there means you have to know both Finnish and Swedish, but maybe you get some pointers from their pages...

BirchBrook wrote:If I were to move to Finland how easy would it be for me to take trade courses or other related classes? Say if I were married and a resident. I am only 31 so still quite young and eager obviously. I'm living in America now (not that it matters but you may understand now why I say I love Finland and wish to move) but I was originally born and raised in Europe and am an EU citizen.

Dunno how much there are courses in English, but if you can handle Finnish then there should be plenty. I ended to this page with quick googling: http://www.yrityshelsinki.fi/en/educati ... immigrants
Finnish bureaucracy might make a dent to your entrepreneurial spirit though

BirchBrook wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by the last sentence

That you'll get a job if you can think of one that no one else is willing to do. I wouldn't resort to that just yet, but I would keep that in mind. Plans b, c and d would be good to have. Snarky comments rise from the fact that we have seen many people wanting to move here that have great plan A (in their opinion) and "I will make it!" attitude, but no backup plan(s). Better to bring people down to earth before they have invested their life savings to a pipe dream.

BirchBrook · Post by **BirchBrook** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:33 am

Kiitos. Good to hear feedback even if it's brutal. I actually know a decent amount of Finnish and I'm smarter than the average bear. But it looks like it's not happening for me now. Chalk that up to "oh, well. it sucks".

interleukin · Post by **interleukin** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:45 am

No reason to give up quite yet. Just do your homework properly, and do it twice more just in case. Make a plan A, but also B,C,D,E. Each additional letter means you accept a !"#¤% job/lifestyle. Decide how far down on the alphabetical scale it would still be worth it. Don´t assume anything, google things or ask. Read books about culture shock, culture shock is even worse if you are struggling to support yourself or stuck in a !"#¤% job than you ever thought you´d end up in. Be humble but determined. Be aware that most jobs in Finland get filled by someone who knows someone. Getting a recommendation from a Finn (even just a "yeah, he´s a normal guy") is the absolutely best way to find a job. Do you know anyone in Finland who knows anyone or who has any relatives living anywhere, doing any jobs? That´s where you should look.

Good luck, it´s not easy. Finland is a great country if you have a job

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:05 pm

BirchBrook wrote:Kiitos. Good to hear feedback even if it's brutal. I actually know a decent amount of Finnish and I'm smarter than the average bear. But it looks like it's not happening for me now. Chalk that up to "oh, well. it sucks".

Decent amount of Finnish is more than regular HBSer has.

It is not wrong being smarter than average Joe, just remember that 90% of drivers have above average skills...
Finnish CV is much more truthful than American one, or at least that is my understanding. You do have impressive names on your list, but also things that rub me wrong way. Not necessarily people who hire. But if you say you are intelligent, then I expect you to be in the league that don't need to say it. By saying it you disqualify yourself from that group and that makes me wonder how much truth there is in other things that you said.

I also would like to point out:

kwx wrote:My problem at the beginning was to be exigent and (too) proud. But, after going to the "mol" center (joobseeker center in FInland), the "coach" (I like to call him like that) open my eyes like, you can do a lot of things, you want a job, seek a specific job in 10 years, now it s time for having some experience and discover Finland and FInnish people....

edit. fixed quotes

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:09 pm

Well, as said, they do like the papers here. As "education is free" anyone without papers is looked upon along the nose what the cat brought in. But no problem - at 31 you're still young - its not surprising to have mature students especially on evening courses at the polytechnics. I only went to the uni at 28, and I was the "youngest" when I sat with the "evening class" students. That is - if you do want to warp your head with all the bs - but on the other hand they do appreciate the older students at the polytechnics especially, as they bring the younger students a "whiff of real life".

Having an EU passport makes life a hell of a lot easier. Doesn't make the light shine out of your ass though. And are you sure you want to do that - the US is pretty anal over losing the greencard if you bugger off, so unless you have also an US passport I'd stay put. There isn't so many 5-star hotels employing toilet attendants and you don't have aspirations to rise up to be the shoeshine when he gets promoted to a bellhop. Finland is friendly and efficient self-service.

Don't have much else to add to what the guys said. It may sound brutal, but the LSD wears off them hippy glasses pretty quick.

I obviously have self motivation and a an entrepreneurial spirit and am quite a skilled, talented and intelligent person.

So why Finland, you smoking something?

The difference between entrepeneurial spirit in USA and Finland:

In USA you invent a gizmo in your garage. You show it to your neighbor. Next week you open the garage door, and theres people queuing up wanting to buy it. Your neighbour is happy for you.

In Finland you invent a gizmo in your garage. You show it to your neighbor. Next week you open the garage door, and theres a meter of snow.
... oh wait, theres footprints to the mailbox. A letter from the tax office and KELA. Kela writes as you now are an inventor all your jobseekers benefits have been cancelled and the tax office sends you a bill for 100 000 for unpaid tax, social fees and insurance. Your neighbour is happy for the reward.

Adrian42 · Post by **Adrian42** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:48 pm

Pursuivant wrote:In USA you invent a gizmo in your garage. You show it to your neighbor. Next week you open the garage door, and theres people queuing up wanting to buy it. Your neighbour is happy for you.

In Finland you invent a gizmo in your garage. You show it to your neighbor. Next week you open the garage door, and theres a meter of snow.
... oh wait, theres footprints to the mailbox. A letter from the tax office and KELA. Kela writes as you now are an inventor all your jobseekers benefits have been cancelled and the tax office sends you a bill for 100 000 for unpaid tax, social fees and insurance. Your neighbour is happy for the reward.

That is not a fair description, and Finland is actually in general a quite inventor frienndly place.

The business culture as well as the general culture is clearly different from the US, but not necessarily worse.

upperreule · Post by **upperreule** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:44 am

I agree with Adrian42

Rick1 · Post by **Rick1** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:47 am

Yes, that is why many (IT and others) youngsters went to USA (california) and made it there. I am not a total USA fan but possibilities are larger there then here (as are risks).

Adrian42 · Post by **Adrian42** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:39 am

Rick1 wrote:Yes, that is why many (IT and others) youngsters went to USA (california) and made it there. I am not a total USA fan but possibilities are larger there then here (as are risks).

Do you have any statitics to prove that?

The Finnish government is doing a lot to help people who are starting a business, and generally Finland is a good place to start a business.

BirchBrook · Post by **BirchBrook** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:10 am

Well in USA an engineer can goto school 6 years and end up only making 20k a year. That's the norm. Same with lawyers or Doctors. Unless you are exceptional you are going to end up just doing much more work for the same amount of pay as someone who doesn't work half as hard.

I like what you've said for more reward, but more risk. I've already reached the cusp of "more reward" and I still don't like the United States in any way. I've know complete losers who've gotten rich here totally deprived of any morality or sense towards other people. That is the average here. That's "how you make it" by hustling and being as depraved as possible before you cross the boundaries. I'm tired of that. I'm tired of living in US.

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