Will I feel good in Finland?

[UkrainianGuy]

Hi Guys,

I have interest to move to Finland with my family. Originally from Europe, currently based in Singapore and work for Investment Bank.
Asia is good place when you are young (I'm 30+), but I want to live in a good place with nice nature and people.
Finland attracts me because of the cold climate and close to my relatives (I'm from Ukraine, originally).
I heard that Russians are not treated well in Finland, while I'm not Russian, but know the language.
What is the attitude towards Ukrainians in Finland and do they treat them well?
Will it be easy to live in Finland society for us?
Thanks.

[rinso]

Before you can come to Finland you need a reason. (to convince migri to give you a residence permit)

good place with nice nature and people.
Finland attracts me because of the cold climate and close to my relatives

This is not a convincing reason.
Read the migri pages: http://www.migri.fi/frontpage

Russians are not popular, mainly because of the behavior of the tourists. But a single family living and integrating away from the Russian orientated shopping centers should have no problems.

[Rip]

Based on your description people will not probably not notice you're foreigner before you open your mouth, and even then the accent isn't perhaps any more "Russian" sounding, so you'd have to actually introduce yourself to people to know you come originally from the area once known as Soviet Union.

Otherwise, I know there are some prejudices, on the other hand Russians (actual Ukrainians make a pretty small number) are the largest group of foreigners in Finland, and as they have pretty much all come here within the past 20 years, I'd expect them for most part be satisfied living here (Offspring of those who immigrated here before or shortly after the revolutions I doubt would be considered Russians by themselves or their surroundings any more).

[Upphew]

Based on your description people will not probably not notice you're foreigner before you open your mouth, and even then the accent isn't perhaps any more "Russian" sounding, so you'd have to actually introduce yourself to people to know you come originally from the area once known as Soviet Union.

Depends how Russian he looks. You certainly can pick them from the crowd. Women dress sexier and men have handbags. And I doubt that Matti Meikäläinen can tell difference between Russian and Ukrainian language.

Otherwise, I know there are some prejudices, on the other hand Russians (actual Ukrainians make a pretty small number) are the largest group of foreigners in Finland, and as they have pretty much all come here within the past 20 years, I'd expect them for most part be satisfied living here (Offspring of those who immigrated here before or shortly after the revolutions I doubt would be considered Russians by themselves or their surroundings any more).

Prejudices live strong. I agree that Russians integrate pretty well, but as there are so many, there are also bad apples among them and it makes easy to generalize. And cultures clash. What is normal way to disciple child in Russia ("If you don't behave I'll pull your hair" and the do it) is assault and battery here and then we have top tier politicians commenting on those things.

[riku2]

I would say the OP has been living in singapore so is quite used to behaving in accordance with local customs. The main difference is that in singapore those norms are enforced by the law (flush the toilet after using it, do not chew chewing gum) and in finland everyone behaves the same due to a common culture so you stick out sorely should you behave differently (like pulling a kids hair or giving them a slap).

I think the worst things will be the almost total absence of cheap labour (forget about live-in maids, I doubt even the prime minister has one) and drastically narrowed selection of restaurants or things to eat. Outside of the couple of largest cities forget about any reasonable Indian, Japanese or Malaysian food. Your local town with have some pizza and kebab places and some finnish version of "chinese" cooking. Forget the idea of picking up a nice meal at a restaurant and taking it home to eat. You will cook for yourself. A cheap asian restaurant in Helsinki will charge 5 star singapore prices for something of worse quality than a hawker centre.

On the upside Finland is one of the few places in the world where cars are cheaper than in Singapore and there is no road pricing (yet). You can even go into a showroom and buy one straight away.. no COE needed!

[Upphew]

I would say the OP has been living in singapore so is quite used to behaving in accordance with local customs. The main difference is that in singapore those norms are enforced by the law (flush the toilet after using it, do not chew chewing gum) and in finland everyone behaves the same due to a common culture so you stick out sorely should you behave differently (like pulling a kids hair or giving them a slap).

Good point. I thought the same, not necessarily that Singapore is so strict, but that op is more cosmopolitan than the regular touristy Igor. Also working in investment bank smells like Helsinki.

[Pursuivant]

I heard that Russians are not treated well in Finland

As everybody knows, a Russian is a Russian even if you fry him in butter. We are so poor, so why waste good butter?

[foca]

And whatever you say to people around you , you will always be a Russian in Finland. The cultural paradigm works quite simply here- if you come from the former USSR and you are not an Estonian , then you are a Russian.....

[llewellyn]

And whatever you say to people around you , you will always be a Russian in Finland. The cultural paradigm works quite simply here- if you come from the former USSR and you are not an Estonian , then you are a Russian.....

Well, I think there is certain awareness about Ukranian difference, I think quite a few Finns are at least dimly aware of the Ukranian situation due to political developments there and the media attention they have gotten here.

And I believe there is a certain ambivalence to this famed Russian Finnish relationship: on state and national level, I think there is certainly frostiness, but there is a benefit of doubt when it comes to individual Russians. "Everyone" knows Russians can be great company (read can drink themselves into same shamanistic oblivion as Finns), and if they have Finnish and a regular job (and quite many do), they can blend in fairly easily as individuals.

[UkrainianGuy]

Thanks, guys. I understand what are you talking about. Here in Singapore I also stay away from Russian groups ... you may guess why... Neither I don't behave like typical Russian, nor my wife. Staying away helps us a lot... Also we are good educated and I have nice experience and, of course, I will come to Finland only if I manage to find a job.

[Oho]

Russians are not popular, mainly because of the behavior of the tourists. But a single family living and integrating away from the Russian orientated shopping centers should have no problems.

Partly no doubt but they are also getting bad rap for being, in some cases more than willing, pawns in Russia's aspirations to gain influence in Finnish internal politics and even legislation, of which the recent child guardian cases are a glaring example.

I may be wrong here but I have gathered most Russians are royally pissed at Ashtahov and the likes for doing their very best to make the lives of Russian families in Finland as hard as possible in the name of protecting them.

[Pursuivant]

I will come to Finland only if I manage to find a job.

I don't know how the salaries/taxes/lifestyle equation works out in Singapore, but you will be making the tax man happy, not necessarily yourself, if you are into material things. Then again most of the banks are Nordic, so you might expand your jobsearch, Russian language would probably be a good plus, so I don't doubt you would fit into a niche with your experience.

[UkrainianGuy]

I will come to Finland only if I manage to find a job.

I don't know how the salaries/taxes/lifestyle equation works out in Singapore, but you will be making the tax man happy, not necessarily yourself, if you are into material things. Then again most of the banks are Nordic, so you might expand your jobsearch, Russian language would probably be a good plus, so I don't doubt you would fit into a niche with your experience.

Thanks, in Singapore tax is very small (8-15%) and salaries in MNC IB higher than in US, especially, when adjusted to a cost of lifestyle. It's okay for me to pay high task and downgrade my financial position. In Singapore life may be very stressful: climate, small island, non-European mentality. For me it is a good experience, but I'm here more than 5 years and it is enough.

[Oombongo]

Finland is a very different country than rest of the Europe. Heck, it is even quite different than other Nordic countries. The natives seem to be quite socially challenged with very primitive body language. They tend to follow "if you did x it is because you are a foreigner" rule. (sure this might be true for other countries but as Finland claims one of the best education system in graphs, charts and reports so I'd expect something more). Such type of scenes are not very rare:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpffc ... o1_500.jpg

On the other hand, those natives who have been assimilated and foreignized are one of the coolest people you'll ever know. They seem a perfect example of Darwin's theory of evolution

If you have a job then you can survive. If your spouse is depended on you then things might be quite difficult as living is quite expensive in here with limited varieties. Now Euro crisis is going to hit us pretty hard, and heaven forbids if this crisis will screw Finland up as Finnish exports are next to none, redundancies are daily news, far right is on rise, and politicians are sitting with thumbs up their asses.

I know one fella who is working in NSN in procurement. He was going to move from Uzbakestan, and he had two options. Join NSN in Espoo or join NSN in Dubai. He asked for my advice. I told him to go for Dubai as his wife won't have job in civil engineering area in Finland for a few years due to language. Then he will be paying much more taxes as he would be earning top €. On top of that, he will be paying significant portion of his salary to rent for a family of 4. He took my advice and moved to Dubai.
In 3 years, he managed to score a SUV and a residence. I am quire skeptical if he would be able to do it in here. The SUV alone costs you an arm, a leg and a kidney in Finland.

[Adrian42]

as Finnish exports are next to none

That's complete nonsense.

Per capita, Finland is exporting three times as much as the USA, and 20 times as much (sic) as China.

There are countries like Singapore or Germany that export more per capita, but in general Finland is pretty good at exporting.