Genitive to mean "for"

[linforcer]

I found it a bit confusing when I had gotten used to (usually) using the external locative cases for "for someone or something" when I encountered:

"..., joka lukijan on helppo saada ..."
"..., which is easy for the reader to get ..."

My girlfriend says this is more neutral, and that substituting "lukijan" with "lukijalle" would translate the same way but put emphasis on "reader", but she says she is not confident in her explanation, so I decided to run this by you guys.

What do you think?

[Jukka Aho]

Let’s use a complete sentence (taken from here) as an example:

Lukijan on helppo saada kuva kapinaan johtaneista syistä ja sitä seuraavista asioista.
“It is easy for the reader to get a picture of the reasons that led to the mutiny and the subsequent events which followed it.”

Lukijalle on helppo saada kuva kapinaan johtaneista syistä ja sitä seuraavista asioista.
“It is easy to create a picture in the reader’s mind of the reasons that led to the mutiny and the subsequent events which followed it.”

So in the former, the reader is more like a subject who acts. In the latter, he is the object who is acted upon.

But also:

Lukijalle olisi helpompaa, jos kirjassa olisi asiasanahakemisto.
“It would be easier (more convenient) for the reader if the book included an index.”

See here and here for more about “verb rections” (rektio), which is basically the Finnish equivalent of phrasal verbs.

[linforcer]

Are you guys ever not awesome?

Great stuff. Thanks heaps!

[Pursuivant]

This would need a picture of Rivo-Riitta from Fingerpori saying "minä teille rektion näytän"

[Jukka Aho]

 
Here’s a bit more about genitive subjects in sentences:

• genetiivisubjekti
• Genetiivi ja muut subjektin sijat nesessiivirakenteessa
• Nesessiivirakenne
• Olla-verbilliset predikaatit nesessiivirakenteessa (← This!)

A quote from the last article:

“Genetiivisubjektillinen adjektiivipredikatiivin sisältävä lause [...] voi myös ilmaista koettua arviota, jolloin genetiivisubjekti viittaa siihen, joka kokee asian predikaatin ilmaisemaksi, esim. helpoksi tai vaikeaksi, hyväksi tai huonoksi.”

or

“A phrase with a genitive subject and an adjectival predicate [...] can also express a perceived assessment, in which case the genitive subject refers to the party who experiences [or rather, is assumed or perceived to experience!] the matter at hand in the light suggested by the predicate, e.g. as easy or hard, good or bad.”

So, “Lukijan on helppo saada...” is the writer’s assessment or assumption of the reader’s experience: “It is easy for the reader to get...”

The article includes a list of the common adjectival predicates which are used in this “assessment” construct, accompanied by a genitive subject:

“GEN.-SUBJEKTI + ON + ADJ.-PREDIKATIIVI: on hyvä, paha, paras(ta), helppo(a), vaikea(ta), turha(a), mahdollista, välttämätöntä, tarpeellista, aiheellista, suositeltavaa”

Teidän on suositeltavaa niistää nenänne ja pyyhkiä jalkanne.

Sinun on turha valittaa.

[Upphew]

Teidän on suositeltavaa niistää nenänne ja pyyhkiä jalkanne.

That leaves nice "or else" feeling hanging there

[jahasjahas]

Teidän on suositeltavaa niistää nenänne, tai allekirjoittanut tekee sen nyrkillään.

[Jukka Aho]

Yeah, suositeltava(a) often has that cautionary air of “highly advisable” about it, instead of being merely “advisable”...

[AldenG]

"You be well-advised to..." has that same ambiguity,, including all the shades of meaning in Jukka's and jahasjahas' posts directly above, even the warning or menacing one.