And here I thought I had stuff like this down....

[linforcer]

So I thought I'd help out someone new to Finnish and she's doing some nonsense on livemocha... the quality of which seems highly suspect.

So just a few things she bumped into, and that I can't confidently answer:

Can you actually use "hopea" as a color? My dictionaries list it possible to interpret it as such, but is it actually used as such.

Then about complements.

The assignment uses "kolikko on hopeaa". Does the partitive here work, and if so, is it still an adjective complement or has it become a noun complement (á The coin is a piece of silver)?

finally she asked me

why "auto on kultaa" but "se on kulta" ?

whereas http://www.uusikielemme.fi/predikatiivi.html would suggest the opposite to be correct... does the livemocha assignment fair, or do I misunderstand the subtleties here?

[onkko]

Hopea is a coulour and you do use it as coulour since you dont really see real silver nor really care about it. "everyone" knows what colour silver is. I would think its more likely that hopea means colour than actual metal.

kolikko on hopeaa = coin is a piece of silver.

Your "why" question didnt make a sense, you cant compare those two. Car is goldy (made of gold) vs its gold.... (it is a gold)

[linforcer]

Ok so the answer to the (her) why question is sooner that the former is an adjective complement and the latter is a noun complement.

That is clear

Can the car be cold-colored with that statement, though?

[onkko]

Car can be made of everything.
Auto on kultaa is as good sentence as auto on maata or auto on puuta.
"Auto on kultaa" doesnt mean colour but actual building material.

[linforcer]

Car can be made of everything.
Auto on kultaa is as good sentence as auto on maata or auto on puuta.
"Auto on kultaa" doesnt mean colour but actual building material.

Ok, since you said hopea was a color, I assume the same goes for kulta


does that mean that:

Auto on kultaa = the car is (made of) gold
Auto on kulta = the car is gold(-colored)

Or are hopea and kulta different in that respect?

Oh, and I should add...

If I ask Onko auto [color]?
and the answer is Ei. On [another color].

What cases are these colors in and can I still use hopea or kulta as a color?

[onkko]

Im sorry that we have misunderstanding in here.
Kulta and hopea are mainly colours but you add "värinen" in end to make it clear.
No one says "auto on kultaa" or "auto on kulta"
Auto on kullan värinen is what someone could say. Maybe "auto on kultainen" but that could mean "car is dear" also so...

[Pursuivant]

Moneypenny on Bondin kulta. darling, love of
Bondin Moneypennylle antama riipus on kullattu. gilt
Goldfingerin auto on kultaa. (/[tehty] kullasta) gold, made of gold
Scaramangan pistooli on kultainen. (/kullanvärinen) golden, color of gold

[Jukka Aho]

Auto on kultaa = the car is (made of) gold
Auto on kulta = the car is gold(-colored)

Or are hopea and kulta different in that respect?

Oh, and I should add...

If I ask Onko auto [color]?
and the answer is Ei. On [another color].

What cases are these colors in and can I still use hopea or kulta as a color?

Nonsensible:

Auto on kulta.
“The car is [the same as] gold” or “The car is darling/babe.”

Sensible, but unexpected:

Auto on kultaa.
“The car is [made] of gold.”

Auto on kullattu.
“The car is gold-plated.”

Sensible:

Auto on kullanvärinen.
“The car is gold-colored.”

Auto on maalattu kullanväriseksi.
“The car has been painted gold.” (The same color as gold.)

Acceptable, but with reservations:

Auton väri on kulta.
“The color of the car is gold.”

With cars, specifically, the paint job could also be “metallic gold” (metallinhohto-kulta).

Auton väri on metallinhohtoinen kulta. / Auton väri on metallinhohto-kulta.
“The color of the (paint on the) car is metallic gold.”

Sometimes you also see adjectives such as kullanhohtoinen (literally “gold-shiny”, “shiny the way gold is”) or hopeanhohtoinen (“silvery”); especially in descriptive prose and poetry. Or the bit old-fashioned kullalla silattu, hopealla silattu. (Gold-plated, silver-plated.)

— Minkä värinen tämä esine on?
— Kullanvärinen.

— Mikä se on väriltään?
— Kulta. (This maybe feels a bit awkward as gold is not really a color; you might rather divert the answer to a proper sentence: Se on kullanvärinen. Sometimes it is handy to use mere kulta as a short-hand label for a color, though... in situations where you deal with a set of predefined colors, and “gold” is one of them and it is very obvious what you mean by that.)

There’s also the word kullankeltainen, but it is typically used more for adding some flowery emphasis and not so much to describe the exact color (which might be yellower or paler than gold and not have any metallic shine to it.)

[Vellamo]

Auto on kulta.
“The car is [the same as] gold” or “The car is darling/babe.”

I totally agree with the car being darling/babe part as an interpretation of this sentence! Your whole post was an excellent explanation of the different options as usual.

[linforcer]

Alright, and when in "se on [color]" "se" refers to an "auto", the case will be the same as if we were just saying "auto on [color]", yeah?

That is to say if "It is blue" is meant to mean: "The car (which had just been referenced) is blue", the case of "blue" will be the same as simply in "the car is blue". Is that right?

Also I assume with colors that can not be mistaken for metals I can just say something along the lines of "auto on sininen" and when someone asks what color the car is, I may answer "se on sininen."

Did I get that right as well?

[Jukka Aho]

Alright, and when in "se on [color]" "se" refers to an "auto", the case will be the same as if we were just saying "auto on [color]", yeah?

That is to say if "It is blue" is meant to mean: "The car (which had just been referenced) is blue", the case of "blue" will be the same as simply in "the car is blue". Is that right?

Hmm... any example of a situation where you’d want to use some other case than the nominative?

Also I assume with colors that can not be mistaken for metals I can just say something along the lines of "auto on sininen" and when someone asks what color the car is, I may answer "se on sininen."

Yep. And mere sininen will do as well, of course:

— Minkä värinen pankkiryöstäjän pakoauto oli?
— Sininen.

— Minkä värisellä autolla pankkiryöstäjä pakeni?
— Sinisellä.

Sinapinkeltaisesta Saabista on tehty lukuisia rikosilmoituksia. Poliisin estetiikkayksikkö tutkii tapausta.

[linforcer]

Awesome. Here's some more... in chat log this time

Me:Also , the main difference between "Nämä ovat puut" and "Nämä ovat puita", is that "puut" in this situation suggest specific trees.
Something like "These are the trees." instead of "These are trees"

Her: oh yes?
but!
Nämä ovat puita.=these are trees
These are wood=Nämä ovat puuta. (means
they are made from wood)

oh... that might actually be true. Were you originally trying to write that?

no, not originally

I'm not sure, though... I think "Tämä on puuta" (This is some wood) works... but I think "Nämä ovat puuta" is probably still wrong... I'll probably ask the forum


So there you are.. again, I feel like this is such simple stuff... but I just can't confidently answer, "There are (some) wood" doesn't make sense to me in English but...

[Upphew]

I'm not sure, though... I think "Tämä on puuta" (This is some wood) works... but I think "Nämä ovat puuta" is probably still wrong... I'll probably ask the forum

Point to one chair and proclaim: Tämä on puuta
Point to two chairs and proclaim: Nämä ovat puuta

[linforcer]

She asked me "what if you point at two trees?"

I answered that pointing at trees and proclaiming "Nämä ovat puuta" would be saying the trees are made of wood. Hope I said that right.

[Pursuivant]

Nämä puut ovat puita.
Nämä puut ovat puuta.