Advice on gaining more suitable employment

[Rip]

the rent is around 700 or 720 pcm I think

Makes this "fancy, expensive" thing pretty much a red herring. I guess they might be able trim bit on housing expenses, but not much. Nice for them if they like it, but it is not that much more what you need to pay for a shoe box here.

she's scared of the KELA lot she says as if they find out she got these disorganization and co ordination problems they will get adult services involved and try to run her life

I see no reason for that fear. You have to do something pretty drastic here (like try to kill people) to make any officials care about the mental state of an adult without children. Anyway, you can fill the application forms home (or online) and then just drop them into the incoming box at KELA office. No need to meet anybody.

(The city office welfare payments you can't legally apply anyway if you still have some savings)

[Haatchi]

dear rinso,

either you misered or i didn't explain too well...

. she doesn't need my help to find a job at all we are just looking for a place that gives professional advice....

- commuting is only a problem as the 'nanny ' job brings in 12 euro for a whole day plus 2.5 hr journey each way starting at 3 am...its 1-2 days a MONTH, often cancelled the night before, no tax, no contributions...if it was worth the money then its not a problem but you cannot make a loss..

--the health problem is chronic disorganization and ADHD which is now overcome so not in the picture...

-irregular hours are only a problem as the re are so few hours and she's sitting at home waiting for phone to ring, life on hold...her bf does shifts but he gets his schedule the week before and its in town so good buses even at night...the nanny job is in a private home in a suburb with 1 bus an hour.

-her bf has lots less Finnish and he has worked in his job for 5 years, and knowing both he's the more difficult character of the 2...

-about the 'yoo old, if someone is fit then age souldn't come into it...this is an attractive well -dressed (despite no money) tall and healthy lookikng woman who often gets mistaken for half her age...born into a new age family and knows how to look after herself so if one judges on date of birth alone they are not looking for a worker but maybe should join match.com instead...real companies are not allowed to do so unless good reason such as job being companion for a livein who often look for same age for interest compatibility or an acting job but nothing more.

[cors187]

thank you aussie/russian for your post...

yes i have fondness for bagging the establishment while trying to add a positive response, its not so easy.

[rinso]

dear rinso,

either you misered or i didn't explain too well...

You created an image, a first impression with the features I described.
I'm sure that was not your intention but the message "she is in a difficult situation/ she has a hard time" resulted in this negative impression.
I know when looking at the details you could moderate things. I too wouldn't be happy with a long commute for €12/day. But by mentioning it you open the door to create doubt about that aspect.
If I was a potential employer (or I knew one) I wouldn't consider your friend based on your information. And I wouldn't bother to find out that first impression was right or wrong or study the information in detail.
I hope you realize that I don't try to judge your friend. I only show how your posts are perceived.

-about the 'yoo old, if someone is fit then age souldn't come into it...

I completely agree, but unfortunately for unskilled labor 35 is already considered old in many workplaces. You're not allowed to say it in advertisements, but employers act on it.
"sorry, but we found somebody more suitable, ..."

[Pursuivant]

the rent is around 700 or 720 pcm I think...going by what the boyfriend is paying ...they are sharing it ...

So who do she think pays student housing then? Jesus in the sky? Students need to go in a private market. 700/2 = 350 and 350 for a room, go find!
And if the BF makes 500 a month? Thats a WTF also? He could be eligible for housing support.

[Haatchi]

the BF works for a large hotel company as Relief manager and due to the post x-mas slump only does about 15 hrs a week right now,but its going up again, the hours in this type job vary due to company requirements and weekends get a weekend allowance...so the wages go up and down sometimes....

what is a 'shoebox'...their place is about 7 m wide and 6 m long this is a quick estimation...

and the poster who mentioned a long daily commute for 12 e its not everyday , the job is only 1-2 days a month making 24 e altogether, with the 3 hr cleaning job once a week and the home help 1 week a month she makes less than 300 e a month right now...and getting up at 3 AM is really disruptive to one's life...having to keep all weekends free in case the sodding family calls...this is unacceptable in my view...someone with residence and a home to run and no need to hide anything from the taxman shouldn't have to work for cash...

and i wouldn't call someone with experience of looking after the old, sick and after children 'unskilled labour' you most likely mean things like telesales commission based and these 'chugger' jobs and marketing and promotion work that is for young people with few commitments as not very secure and long hours for very little pay...and grown adults with families don't put up with those conditions in the first place...

she really wants to give up her nannying job as she doesn't want to work for cash...have suggested she should tell them that the early morning coach service has been stopped and she cannot travel there anymore and please can they give her a recommendation that can lead to another position which is not 80km from her home...and where taxes are being paid and rules kept...cannot be that difficult...she's not being sacked, its just not worth giving up a whole weekend for 12 e..

[Adrian42]

and i wouldn't call someone with experience of looking after the old, sick and after children 'unskilled labour'

"Unskilled labour" means "no formal qualification", and that seems to be the case here.

As was already mentioned here, even ignoring her medical history it is very hard for a 50 year old woman to find any job at all. And with only intermediate Finnish skills and no formal qualification that's even harder.

we went to the MOL office and they are a useless lot, they just say' all our jobs are on the computer database, go and apply for them yourself...

What magic did you expect MOL to do? They cannot create jobs out of the void.

and one as a home helper (paid by HKI CITY)

Could she get a second such job? Where could she find that? Looking at everything you wrote that looks like the best way for achieving some improvement.

[Pursuivant]

OK, so shes 50 years old? Hmmm... that gives a whole new perspective.

[cors187]

Young or old their all available to be abused by employers.Is she really over 40?because at that age she needs to start thinking how she can use the never ending stream of young people. Its her only hope!!!
No point going back to school.
A 30+ person normally has developed some character strengths that are rather impressive.Invite her to a challenge, to write down her character strengths and talents. and then post them back up for us!

[Haatchi]

she got the job as a 'home helper' form the tori.fi forum but this employer stated that they wanted a local person living within walking distance as the hours can be very early/late and short notice...so what got her the job is that she lives in the same block...also due to the employer's allergy they wanted a non-smoker who has no pets and who doesn't mind not using any toiletries for 12 hrs before work...her bf is light smoker so she's constantly changing clothes..

what is all that talk about being 50 and that is a problem...she's not going to apply to produce a heir for some kingdom...she told me that in the hospice where she volunteers most paid staff, carers, cleaners and kitchen staff are mostly female and most of them over 50, the only younger paid staff are medical and nursing students doing some practical work...she said many of them are overweight or heavy smokers, so being very fit is not a requirement either, although she's a very active physically fit person who looks after her health well...

I can understand a 'woman returner ' who has been out of the workplace just running a home for 20 yrs and has to get used to being on time again would be difficult to employ...but someone who is in work NOW???? If any of these jobs could provide sufficient hours to pay a living wage ..but the 'nanny ' job really is rubbish as its cash with no taxes paid and the employers are not a very good family, they use her and don't have a clue how to deal with employees, and getting up at 3 AM...how can someone who has never had a network of friends build up their life if its bedtime at 7pm?

I know there are many people desperate for work, some foreign people from poorer countries happily offer to work for food and a room...but someone resident with their own home, no way...I've advised her to tell the family that the coach service is now running later and she cannot come in any more and if they could give her a recommendation...I think that in caring jobs older people are seen as more reliable than youngsters who want to party and call in sick at weekends (mind you, my neighbour ,40 , did that once before x-mas lol,) and surely children or hospice patients don't care if the person giving them their cup of tea is young and fashionable...?

About Skills: This person speaks 3 languages and is very good with other people, very caring and patient and (quote the BF the kind of person to get others calm and relaxed ) as well as real work skills, she has also looked after 2 relatives and raised a child...and she's the most balanced and least moody person one can imagine (as for middle-age moods no sign of them at all) also very resourceful...

[cors187]

About Skills: This person speaks 3 languages and is very good with other people, very caring and patient and (quote the BF the kind of person to get others calm and relaxed ) as well as real work skills, she has also looked after 2 relatives and raised a child...and she's the most balanced and least moody person one can imagine (as for middle-age moods no sign of them at all) also very resourceful...

i guess im asking for what she writes , not what you think she is.

[Adrian42]

what is all that talk about being 50 and that is a problem... she's not going to apply to produce a heir for some kingdom...

It is much harder on the job market when you are older.

I am just stating a fact here, not that I think it is a good thing.

she told me that in the hospice where she volunteers most paid staff, carers, cleaners and kitchen staff are mostly female and most of them over 50, the only younger paid staff are medical and nursing students doing some practical work...

Did she already ask whether she could get a paid position there?

They already know her, and if she already has a good reputation there she should have good chances of getting a job.

I can understand a 'woman returner ' who has been out of the workplace just running a home for 20 yrs and has to get used to being on time again would be difficult to employ...but someone who is in work NOW????

As you surely know from the news, economy is not doing well at the moment and many companies are firing people.

Do you seriously believe that everyone who has a job right now and gets fired will immediately find a new job somewhere else? The unemployment rate in Finland is not at 0%...

I think that in caring jobs older people are seen as more reliable than youngsters who want to party and call in sick at weekends

Your prejudices against young people are not correct in general.

And there are also positions where it can be objectively better to employ young people:

One problem in many "caring jobs" is that you constantly have to move people around, and that often ruins your knees and back within 10-20 years. And the human body is at it's best around the age of 20, and after that it slowly starts to deteriorate. The repair mechanisms of the human body also become worse (a small injury that takes 2 days to heal when you are 20 might take a week to heal when you are 60). So when the "caring jobs" includes moving people around, there should be fewer days of sick-leave with a younger person.

About Skills: This person speaks 3 languages and is very good with other people, very caring and patient and (quote the BF the kind of person to get others calm and relaxed ) as well as real work skills, she has also looked after 2 relatives and raised a child...and she's the most balanced and least moody person one can imagine (as for middle-age moods no sign of them at all) also very resourceful...

For an employer judging her only based on her CV (for deciding whom of the applicants to invite to the job interview) that's no skills.

On a general note, there is no point in your attempts to describe here in this forum what a great and caring person she is:
- You were asking for advice. No matter whether you like it or not, it is not easy for your friend to find a job. And no matter whether you like it or not, for an employer looking at her CV she is relatively old and has no skills.
- It is unlikely that you will find her a job by posting to some internet forums like here. Here we have each day someone posting "I have no qualifications, but I desperately need a job.", and noone here can create jobs out of the void for all these people (among whom your friend is just one of the many).
- Realistically, the best chance of finding a better job is through people she knows. Perhaps you have some friends who might be able to help her? Or perhaps at the hospice where they know her, as I suggested above?

[Haatchi]

'caring jobs mean moving people around' - and organisations have got appliances for that and also have a strict rule that it takes 2 people to move a person...as there would be too many 'bad back' claims otherwise...in some jobs such as 'privately run care homes ' common in my home country where owner tries to make huge profits, value brand canned soup for meals and people working illegally sleeping in the basement...our in the set up of 'one to one' carer in a private household...and not all care home residents need moving around...it used to be common but not anymore...also about patient safety if anyone gets dropped and is hurt or killed in the process its the fault of the organisation.

the hospice is run by a nation wide organisation who do take on ex-volunteers as paid staff and after 16 weeks they provide a certificate....the person (not my friend but took over our old flat for rest of lease, now moved) has done 12 weeks so far...they don't waste their time and any person applying for a voluntary position with possible paid employment is interviewed 3 times by different people who know what they're doing, police and ID checked and asked questions on any contact with infectious diseases, alcohol or drug use before even going to the Interview at a home...and she's very much liked there...I'm sure if they thought her age and its impact on the body was an issue, they would have told her not to come back long before..especially as they would be responsible in case of anything going wrong...

the cleaning and kitchen department is contract but maybe they have any openings, even temporary until the cert comes through...they also provide further training but not too sure if its free...

there are a lot of 'rogue' employers out there as there is this damn recession my neighbour had their hours cut at work and joined an agency , they send him on a 4 hr job in 'serena' water park on edge of Espoo, we live in Mellunmäki for minimum pay, then there was lunch and they deducted 5 euro for his meal which he did not want...after tax and fares he was only left with small change (male, no kids, less than 40, attractive, degree,) especially people will work for cash and for very little...

[The_SJB]

So, what languages does your friend speak?

[rinso]

Invite her to a challenge, to write down her character strengths and talents. and then post them back up for us!

That should be done in the first post instead of summing up all the problems that she has.