Who do Finns mercilessly pick apart foreigners' Finnish...

[foca]

, ive classed Estonian language as more important to me than Finnish(except i cant learn that either)!

Do not even try...if you ever move to Tallinn you 'll be able to get by with just your Russian

[ChristinainLahti]

strange discussion, I would be grateful if my friends would correct me, because I do the same stupid mistake again and again and again, just because I think it´s correct, but actually it´s not.

[misu]

strange discussion, I would be grateful if my friends would correct me, because I do the same stupid mistake again and again and again, just because I think it´s correct, but actually it´s not.

Then you shouldn't mind if I point out that you're using a diacritical mark instead of a proper apostrophe.

Diacritical mark (what you're using) = ´

Apostrophe (what you should be using instead) = '

[Jukka Aho]

strange discussion, I would be grateful if my friends would correct me, because I do the same stupid mistake again and again and again, just because I think it´s correct, but actually it´s not.

Then you shouldn't mind if I point out that you're using a diacritical mark instead of a proper apostrophe.

Diacritical mark (what you're using) = ´

Apostrophe (what you should be using instead) = '

As you note, the latter character (U+0027 APOSTROPHE) is semantically more correct than using a lone diacritic (U+00B4 ACUTE ACCENT) – and the recommended, standard way of marking up an apostrophe if you have no other options available to you (as might sometimes be the case with old, behind-the-times computer systems, such as the database backends used by governments and banks) – but neither of them is the best choice for the purpose.

What you suggest using is the so-called ‘typewriter apostrophe’ or ‘ASCII apostrophe’ – an old, typographically compromised, overloaded form harking back to the days when typewriters and early computers made no attempt at differentiating between genuine apostrophes (’) and the prime symbol (′) – or the opening and closing single quotes, for that matter – but lumped them all in one and the same compromise character/codepoint.

However, if you want to style your text in a typographically correct way, you will want to use the ‘typographic’ apostrophe (U+2019 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK): i.e. the apostrophe in its original, curved form (’), instead of having a slanted or vertical appearance. The old ‘ASCII’ or ‘typewriter’ apostrophe (') is better left for computer code and other technical markup (where it is usually the only allowed form, anyway.)

As for how to type these symbols, the input method varies a bit depending on your operating system (Linux, OS X, Windows) and the keyboard layout you use. Some environments include the various ‘typographic’ quote characters directly in their keyboard layout – typically behind a modifier key of some sort. Some allow typing them in via a special sequence which includes the character’s numeric code. You could also use a special input utility, such as Character Map, which comes with Windows, or copy and paste them from a text file or another document. Some application programs, such as word processors, commonly implement their own special key sequences which will produce these characters, or they might also feature an automatic conversion from the ‘dumb’ quotes and apostrophes to the ‘smart’ ones. One option is also creating an alternative, customized keyboard layout for yourself which includes the various special characters you will often want to use and makes them easy to type on your computer. (This is what I have done. For example, on my keyboard, the character U+2019 (’) is produced by typing Alt Gr [labeled simply as the right-hand Alt key on some keyboards] and , [the comma key], so using it in any text is simple and effortless.)

More information:

• Mind Your En And Em Dashes: Typographic Etiquette
• Typography rules (the author of this article equates the ‘dumb’ single and double quotes with the inch and foot symbols, respectively, but this is wrong as well: there are separate, dedicated characters for these purposes [U+2032 PRIME, U+2033 DOUBLE PRIME] which are slanted and not upright)
• How To Type Quotes, Apostrophes, and Primes
• Linux keyboard text symbols: Compose key shortcuts
• Apostrophes in Native Languages
• Unicode Character 'RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK' (U+2019) (see the ‘Comments’ field)
• The Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator
• Typographic Tips: Apostrophes & Quotation Marks
• Smart Quotes

(Yes, a similar situation exists for the ‘smart’ and 'dumb' quotes as well. Maybe even more complicated, as different languages traditionally call for different ‘typographic’ or ‘smart’ quoting styles. For example, in the German language text is quoted in a typographically correct way „like this” whereas in English, the preferred way is “like this” and in Finnish ”like this”. None of these styles use the straight, ‘dumb’, ‘ASCII’, ‘typewriter-style’ plain double quote character ["] you can easily get from your keyboard.)

[Upphew]

You just have to love Jukka.

[Jukka Aho]

:lol:

You just have to love Jukka.

I hope I’ll be loved because my apostrophes and quotes look so much nicer…

’

[ChristinainLahti]

strange discussion, I would be grateful if my friends would correct me, because I do the same stupid mistake again and again and again, just because I think it´s correct, but actually it´s not.

Then you shouldn't mind if I point out that you're using a diacritical mark instead of a proper apostrophe.

Diacritical mark (what you're using) = ´

Apostrophe (what you should be using instead) = '

I wrote "if my friends" would correct me.

[Rob A.]

A very entertaining and enjoyable thread....

But I think this is the best explanation....

It´s also a question of Finns not being used to seeing/hearing bad Finnish. I find that English speakers tend to be more used to people mutilating their language, and they still understand what´s going on. Finns are not yet that used to foreigners speaking bad Finnish, or any Finnish, so they will either correct you to be helpful (or they think they are, I can see why it gets frustrating when it happens ALL the time), or just not understand you at all. My Swedish speaking Finn SO runs into this sometimes. He says something in grammatically perfect Finnish, but the Finns don´t understand him because the accent is a bit off. I´m the same in Icelandic (another language with complex grammar), I have a really hard time understanding people who speak bad Icelandic (=bad grammar) because my brain is not used to it.

if people keep correcting your FB posts, you should let people know. If you don´t want to piss anyone off, you can always write that you are focusing on quantity of Finnish at this stage, so people should ignore problems in quality unless they are too bad.

And then again, grammar nazis will always exist. Or people who just HAVE to point out to you every time you do anything wrong. That´s life.

The impression I get is that Finns are just not used to hearing people butcher their language and it is actually hard to understand foreign accents. Even with English, if I hear English spoken by someone whose accent I haven't heard before, I usually need a bit of time to "calibrate" the way they are speaking.

Also, in Finnish, vowels are particularly critical, but in English you can almost leave them out and still be understood.....

There is a world of difference between kuusi and kusi....to a Finn...but to an English speaker...hey, practically the same word....

[AldenG]

There is a world of difference between kuusi and kusi....to a Finn...but to an English speaker...hey, practically the same word....

Especially when standing in nature, where they may refer to one and the same spot.

[cors187]

The Finnish language is a prejudiced beast,allowing for speech impediment Finnish nationals to be recognized as retards even in the early years.
Its really a disappointment to see the face of a FIN as they meticulously wind through the un natural expressions and sound like a frog.
Extending words as they drag on.

[onkko]

the un natural expressions and sound

Finnish dont have any, regards native finn

[Rob A.]

There is a world of difference between kuusi and kusi....to a Finn...but to an English speaker...hey, practically the same word....

Especially when standing in nature, where they may refer to one and the same spot.

Kusi seemes to be one of those words you can have a lot of fun with as you learn the language.... I encountered this charming word....poronkusema.....

Now I don't know if it is just a joke entry in wiktionary or if it is actually used....and if it is used, I imagine it's a "northern" word, probably unknown in Helsinki.... Maybe that resident northerner,onkko, can inform us... Anyway native speakers will figure it out quick enough, even if they don't know how it's used. It's a compound word...the first part is in the genitive...."of a reindeer" and the second bit is in the agent form, "by the pee".....

So ...."By the pee of a reindeer"...it's apparently a rough measure of distance...about 7.5km the distance a reindeer will travel before having to stop to urinate.... So I guess you might say:

Pekka asuu viisi poronkusemaa Kemijärviltä....

I also encountered this expression, kusta muuntajaan....again I don't know if it is actually used, but given my association with the electric utility industry I thought it was kind of charming ..."to commit suicide"....by peeing into a transformer... Kind of funny, no??

[onkko]

Poronkusema may have been valid measurement of distance but today its used as funny old way and not used as official or unoffcial or anything like that.
Kusta muuntajaan is what you do when your face is ugly enuogh so you cant do anything else

Offtopic but i dont remember our reindeers "ear mark"
My grandparents had reindeers and my uncles do remember mark.