What are the connotations of the word "apina"?

[phoenix758]

Is calling someone a monkey (apina) an insult or can it be taken as one? What are the connotations of the word?

[jahasjahas]

It can be used as an insult, though I think it's always almost intensified as "vitun apina" or "saatanan apina". It kinda lacks the necessary punch if used alone. I don't think it really carries that much meaning, just a general insult like "idiot" or "loser".

And of course, calling a black person "apina" would most likely be interpreted as a racist insult.

[Upphew]

It can be used as an insult, though I think it's always almost intensified as "vitun apina" or "saatanan apina". It kinda lacks the necessary punch if used alone. I don't think it really carries that much meaning, just a general insult like "idiot" or "loser".

And of course, calling a black person "apina" would most likely be interpreted as a racist insult.

Kids get called monkeys when they monkey around. But calling black kid monkey when they monkey around will most likely be interpreted as racial insult.

[Jukka Aho]

Is calling someone a monkey (apina) an insult or can it be taken as one? What are the connotations of the word?

As jahasjahas said, the word can be used as an insult, especially if accompanied with a swear word in the genitive case functioning as an intensifier (“X:n apina!”). In such pejorative usage, the word apina is typically meant to suggest the targeted person shares some qualities with monkeys or apes — such as hairy, lowbrow, ugly “animal” appearance and matching IQ. (Or gait and posture, or a penchant for bananas, or whatever!) Of course, as with any insult, sometimes you could use quite rough or rude characterizations jocularly in a good company where you know the other person will not take such things at face value... so the context and tone would dictate whether there’s a reason to get offended.

But it could also simply refer to someone’s dexterity in tasks such as climbing a tree, in a positive light, although jocularly:

Petteri on sellainen apina, että se kiipeää minkä tahansa puun latvaan yhdessä hujauksessa!

Or it could refer to someone’s tendency to ape (mimic) the behavior of others:

Kaksospojat ovat sellaisia pikkuapinoita, että ne tekevät kaiken samalla tavalla isänsä perässä.

There’s also the verb apinoida which refers specifically to mimicking others in your behavior.

(Note that both apes and monkeys are called apina in Finnish. If you want to make a distinction between the two, you’d call apes ihmisapina [lit. “human monkey”, “human-like monkey”.])

[Pursuivant]

Its used as a mild insult for people "making a mess" or "making a noise", as in "saatanan mölyapinat olkaa hiljaa!"... its more of a percieved nature of monkeys off tv as obviously theres no native monkeys in Finland, so think of "Cheetah" in an old Tarzan movie.

As far as kids go, its more of a term of endearment, you can call a clingy toddler a "marakatti" (mona/guenon) that were sometimes seen as pets back in the days.

And of course, kids like to call each other a punapersepaviaani they see wanking in the zoo.

[Pursuivant]

Apina ja gorilla, kävelivät torilla.
Kyselivät ämmiltä, onko maito lämmintä.
Ämmät ne huusi poliisia auttamaan.
Ja se poliisi pamputti gorillan sairaalaan.

[Rob A.]

Apina ja gorilla, kävelivät torilla.
Kyselivät ämmiltä, onko maito lämmintä.
Ämmät ne huusi poliisia auttamaan.
Ja se poliisi pamputti gorillan sairaalaan.

Well...this is driving me crazy....I'm sure there is a play on words here, but I can't find it. The only word I'm not sure about is ämmiltä / ämmät....does this mean "janitor" or "bucket-carrier" or something like that?

The rest of it seems to be:

"The monkey and the gorilla walked through the market place.
They asked the ??janitors?? if the milk is warm.
The ??janitors??, they called the police to help.
And these police "batted" the gorilla into hospital."

Well...something like that...now give me a clue where the humour is... I'm having a cultural brain seizure, I guess...

Oh yes...and from what I can tell, using apina as an insult seems to fall into that pan-European cultural heritage....a bit like expressions such as "buy a pig in a poke"....ostaa sika säkissä...and in some languages the "pig" becomes a kissa.... The usage is pretty much the same and when not to use it would also be the same....

[Jukka Aho]

Well...this is driving me crazy....I'm sure there is a play on words here, but I can't find it.

It’s just a weird/funny little nonsense “poem”, or a limerick, if you will.

Note the rhymes (7 syllables in each phrase, 3 syllables in each rhyming word):

go-ril-la ... to-ril-la
äm-mil-tä ... läm-min-tä

The ending does not have as uniform structure, but there’s still rhyming:

aut-ta-maan ... sai-raa-laan

The only word I'm not sure about is ämmiltä / ämmät....does this mean "janitor" or "bucket-carrier" or something like that?

(Old / middle-aged) women (wives, bags, crones, hags). Somewhat pejorative; not to be used unless you want to sound a bit rude... or chauvinist à la Archie Bunker.

[Rob A.]

Well...this is driving me crazy....I'm sure there is a play on words here, but I can't find it.

It’s just a weird/funny little nonsense “poem”, or a limerick, if you will.

Note the rhymes (7 syllables in each phrase, 3 syllables in each rhyming word):

go-ril-la ... to-ril-la
äm-mil-tä ... läm-min-tä

The ending does not have as uniform structure, but there’s still rhyming:

aut-ta-maan ... sai-raa-laan

The only word I'm not sure about is ämmiltä / ämmät....does this mean "janitor" or "bucket-carrier" or something like that?

(Old / middle-aged) women (wives, bags, crones, hags). Somewhat pejorative; not to be used unless you want to sound a bit rude... or chauvinist à la Archie Bunker.

Thanks Jukka

As usual one thing leads to another....so I decided to check out the Finnish names for the various types of rhyming metre.... This is an example of jambinen pentametri....or at least I think it is...I'm not all that good with poetry...

Then there is daktyylinen heksametri....nelipolvinen trokee...and anapesti.... Although I think the meaning is probably obvious, I'm not sure how to translate nelipolvinen...neli "four-beat" But polvinen....."kneeling"....???

[Upphew]

Then there is daktyylinen heksametri....nelipolvinen trokee...and anapesti.... Although I think the meaning is probably obvious, I'm not sure how to translate nelipolvinen...neli "four-beat" But polvinen....."kneeling"....???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trochaic_tetrameter

[onkko]

As usual one thing leads to another....so I decided to check out the Finnish names for the various types of rhyming metre.... This is an example of jambinen pentametri....or at least I think it is...I'm not all that good with poetry...

Then there is daktyylinen heksametri....nelipolvinen trokee...and anapesti.... Although I think the meaning is probably obvious, I'm not sure how to translate nelipolvinen...neli "four-beat" But polvinen....."kneeling"....???

anapesti "snirk".... Meaning is far from obvious, sounds like invented words for very narrow field and they should use english or whatever equivalents.
anapesti = ana = anaali and pesti = "hired for" and i blame internet
And wtf is "four kneed trokee"? What is trokee and why there is four knees?

[Jukka Aho]

nelipolvinen trokee...and anapesti.... Although I think the meaning is probably obvious, I'm not sure how to translate nelipolvinen...neli "four-beat" But polvinen....."kneeling"....???

Neli- just means “four”. (This is the “prefix form” of the word neljä, used in compound words.) So I guess -polvinen, in this context, refers to beats, but I’m not an expert in the formal analysis of poetic meters, either.

As for anatomy,

Ihmisellä on kaksi polvea. → Ihminen on kaksipolvinen eläin.

Creatures typically aren’t categorized based on the number of their knees, but you get the point...

[Rob A.]

As usual one thing leads to another....so I decided to check out the Finnish names for the various types of rhyming metre.... This is an example of jambinen pentametri....or at least I think it is...I'm not all that good with poetry...

Then there is daktyylinen heksametri....nelipolvinen trokee...and anapesti.... Although I think the meaning is probably obvious, I'm not sure how to translate nelipolvinen...neli "four-beat" But polvinen....."kneeling"....???

anapesti "snirk".... Meaning is far from obvious, sounds like invented words for very narrow field and they should use english or whatever equivalents.
anapesti = ana = anaali and pesti = "hired for" and i blame internet
And wtf is "four kneed trokee"? What is trokee and why there is four knees?

All these words seem to have a Greek origin....which makes me wonder if there are other ancient Finnish poetic metres with traditional Finnish names. But it all gets kind of complicated. Apparently old Germanic languages, including English, used other rhyming metres than those we, in the English world, currently hear about...and I suppose this was important during the long time periods when things were passed down orally....after all you didn't want to bore your listeners....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre_(poetry)

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/meter.html

So, anyone, what are the ancient Finnish rhyming traditions or conventions???

[Pursuivant]

Polvi would in this mean an archaic word for "turn" as in a joenpolvi , or a polveileva polku a winding path.

Also, if you want to get real pedantic, polvi is also used for a generation, sukupolvi. I think that would tie it in with the usage of a meter of the poetry, you have a lot of things that form "knees". And remember if you hit it, pojasta polvi paranee