Parking rules

Where to buy? Where can I find? How do I? Getting started.
christoph.gysin
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:18 pm

Parking rules

Post by christoph.gysin » Sun May 05, 2013 5:17 pm

I don't own a car, and do not possess a parking card. But every now and then I rent or borrow a car and have to park it somewhere in Helsinki. I've noticed several different signs denoting parking areas.

There are two very common ones, and I've been curious about the difference between the two:

Variant A)
Image
For all I know, in these zones you can park freely over the weekend and during the night. On weekdays from 9am-9pm you have to get a parking ticket from the nearest ticket machine and deposit behind the windscreen.

Variant B)
Image
This one confuses me. I understand the part on the top, which says you can't park here every second Tuesday of the month from 9-15 (otherwise you'd get towed). But then there is a big "no parking sign". In other countries, the "no parking" sign is used to denote zones where parking is explicitly forbidden. In Helsinki, it seems to be used to mark parking zones. But how are these zones different to the ones marked with variant A above?

Wikipedia on Finnish road signs is not much more help either.
Last edited by christoph.gysin on Sun May 05, 2013 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Parking rules

Sponsor:

Finland Forum Ad-O-Matic
 

Rip
Posts: 5582
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:08 pm

Re: Parking rules

Post by Rip » Sun May 05, 2013 5:41 pm

(fixed)
Last edited by Rip on Mon May 06, 2013 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

007
Posts: 632
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:01 pm

Re: Parking rules

Post by 007 » Sun May 05, 2013 9:03 pm

Former one is for parking area made and meant for parking while latter one is for parking area, not primarily made for parking eg. sides/shoulders of the road etc. afaik.
“Go where you are celebrated – not tolerated."
"Aina, kun opit uuden sanan, opettele samalla sen monikko!"

User avatar
Pursuivant
Posts: 15089
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:51 am
Location: Bath & Wells

Re: Parking rules

Post by Pursuivant » Sun May 05, 2013 9:25 pm

Its quite easy:
The first one is a parking area you can park in. Between 9 - 17 you need to pay. Otherwise its parkeee parkeee
The second one you can not park onto. Except 9-17 if you pay, and otherwise if you happen to have a residential licence with "K", otherwise, piss off.

Theres actually a whole lot more of those "no parking" signs, as said its curbsides etc. Usually its no parking or even no stopping and then a 9-17 sign. Its basically denoting "no parking during weekdays office hours"...
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

Jukka Aho
Posts: 5237
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:46 am
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Parking rules

Post by Jukka Aho » Sun May 05, 2013 9:57 pm

The most authoritative source to reading the traffic signs is Tieliikenneasetus 5.3.1982/182, especially Chapter 3, which defines legal traffic signs and their meaning and usage.

There’s also this PDF guideline by the Transport Agency for road developers and maintainers, traffic planners etc., giving detailed descriptions of the proper, officially recommended usage of traffic signs.

The Transport Agency maintains a website in English where the traffic signs are presented in English.

Finally, there’s also this English language guide to reading the signs, published by the City of Helsinki, and an English language website about parking in Helsinki maintained by the Public Works Department.

Some basics:
  • All Finnish traffic signs have an official numeric code for easy reference. You often see these numbers in discussions where people want to refer to the signs unambiguously. For instance, the number of the STOP sign is 232. You can find these numbers e.g. in the decree linked above. When discussing traffic signs, it’s best to adopt this custom of referring to them by their number.
  • Signs warning about a danger are triangular whereas prohibitory/restrictive signs and mandatory signs are round. Informative signs are rectangular or square.
  • Warning signs and prohibitory signs have a red outline, yellow background and black markings. (Except for signs restricting parking where the main background color is blue but the outline and the diagonal bars are red!) Mandatory signs and informative signs generally have a white outline, blue background and white markings.
  • Designated, marked parking lots are one thing. Parking on the side of a street is another thing. So there’s different signage for these two basic cases.

With that out of the way, the actual parking lots are indicated with an informative sign (sign 677, a capital letter “P”) whereas parking on the side of a street is not indicated as it is allowed by default.

Restrictions to that default rule, such as “Parking prohibited” and “Standing and parking prohibited”, are indicated... with the respective prohibitory signs (sign 372, sign 371.)

• • •

So, if you see this sign alone...

Sign 677: “Parking”
Image

...it’s an area set apart from the street traffic; a designated parking lot. Feel free to park there.

If you’re driving on a street which does not have any signage at all (that would apply to parking), feel free to park there, too. Parking on the side of a street is allowed by default.

Then again, if you see one of these alone:

Sign 371: “Standing and parking prohibited”
Image

Sign 372: “Parking prohibited”
Image

...parking is not allowed at all in the section of the street they apply to.

• • •

The section of the street to which the prohibitory signs apply can be indicated by using these additional arrow panels (they’re not to scale and usually smaller in size than the main sign):

Sign 827: “Regulation begins from the sign”
Image

Sign 828: “Regulation ends to the sign”
Image

There are a couple of other arrow panels with numbers in the same range. Check them out here.

In absence of the arrow panels or other additional panels indicating the range of the prohibitory sign, the signs apply from the place where they’re erected all the way to the next intersection (or until another sign reverts them.) Signs prohibiting parking or standing the car only apply to the side of the street where they’re located.

• • •

The original prohibition can be made more specific by including some additional panels. (Prohibitory signs can only be made less prohibitive than a stand-alone sign by adding such panels, never more prohibitive.) When such panels are added to a sign, they follow the color scheme of the main sign. Here are some of the most common ones:

Sign 814: Distance to which the [original prohibitory] sign applies
Image

Self-explanatory.

Sign 851
Image

Black numbers. The prohibitory sign applies between 08:00 and 17:00 hours, Mo—Fr. (Regular workdays)
At other times, it does not apply, and you’re free to park there.

Sign 852
Image

Black numbers in parenthesis. The prohibitory sign applies on Saturdays between 08:00 and 13:00 hours.
At other times, it does not apply, and you’re free to park there.

Sign 853
Image

Red numbers. The prohibitory sign applies on Sundays and public holidays between 08:00 and 14:00 hours
At other times, it does not apply, and you’re free to park there.

Signs 851, 852, and 853 can be combined.

• • •

But watch out for this one:

Sign 854: “Time limit”
Image

This additional panel effectively says: “The effect of the prohibitory sign is postponed until the indicated amount of time has passed since you first violated it” (...if you’re still found violating it.) So equipped with this panel, the sign does not limit your parking unless you violate it for a longer time than indicated in the panel.

This, too, can be combined with the above-mentioned hour ranges, in which case it limits the length of continuous parking within those hours. (The sign does not apply outside those hours. Parking is allowed again outside those hours.)

• • •

There can also be additional panels pertaining to metered parking:

Sign 855a: “Parking against fee”
Image

So, when that one is combined with the sign 372: “Parking prohibited”, it says: parking is prohibited during the indicated hours except when you pay for it (get a receipt from the machine and display it on your windscreen.)

• • •

Then there is...

Sign 856a: “Obligatory use of parking disc”
Image

...which means the prohibition will apply to you unless you limit your stay to the indicated length of time and use the parking disc. Again, this could be combined with certain hours (to which the prohibition will apply.)

• • •

With designated parking lots...

Sign 677: “Parking”
Image

...it’s the same, except now the additional panels have a matching blue color scheme, and the times and time-frames place additional restrictions on free parking (free parking is the default if the sign appears alone, with no additional panels.)

For instance, when the “P” sign is combined with...

Sign 855b: “Parking against fee”
Image

...it means parking is metered during the indicated times. (Free at other times.)

Or if there’s the panel...

Sign : “Obligatory use of parking disc”
Image

...with no further hours panels, you’re always expected to use a parking disc, and even with a disc, you’re not allowed to park for a longer time than indicated in the panel.

• • •

If you have other additional panels, either textual or images, such as...

Sign 831: “Passenger car”
Image

Sign 832: “Bus”
Image

Sign 833_2: “Vehicle combination”
Image

...they further limit the effect of the sign to the indicated class of vehicles, specifically.

Sometimes there’s also a text panel starting with the words Ei koske... (“Does not apply to...”) — a negation. For example, Ei koske mopoja (“Does not apply to mopeds”) or Ei koske talon asukkaita (“Does not apply to the residents of the house”). Or it could be of the form Sallittu mopoille (“Allowed for mopeds”.) Text panels are used both for including and excluding certain classes of drivers or vehicles whenever there’s no standard sign for communicating the intended effect. They could also contain arbitrary free-form text limiting the effect of the main sign by some other special criteria.
znark

Jukka Aho
Posts: 5237
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:46 am
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Parking rules

Post by Jukka Aho » Mon May 06, 2013 2:14 pm

The linked pictures didn’t work when I started writing my original post above, so here’s an analysis of what they mean, specifically:
christoph.gysin wrote:Variant A)
Image
For all I know, in these zones you can park freely over the weekend and during the night. On weekdays from 9am-9pm you have to get a parking ticket from the nearest ticket machine and deposit behind the windscreen.
From top to bottom:
  1. Sign 677: “Parking”. This is a designated parking lot, set apart from street traffic.
  2. Sign 855b: “Parking against fee”. If you park during the indicated hours (Mo-Fr 9—21), it’s metered, so you should get a receipt from the machine and display it on your windscreen. Parking is free at other times.
  3. An additional informative panel with no official numeric designation. This one tells you to get your receipt from a “Zone 3” permit machine and pay the “Zone 3” fees. It also says, using somewhat questionable Finnish grammar, Maksu ei koske P-tunnuksella: K (“The fee does not apply with the P badge: ‘K’”). I guess the intended message is Maksu ei koske pysäköintitunnuksen ”K” haltijoita (“The fee does not apply to the holders of the ‘K’ parking permit”) but there was not enough space for that. The Swedish version works better in this sense.
  4. Sign 845: “Method of parking”. Self-explanatory. You’re instructed to park on the curb in this parking zone.
christoph.gysin wrote:Variant B)
Image
This one confuses me. I understand the part on the top, which says you can't park here every second Tuesday of the month from 9-15 (otherwise you'd get towed). But then there is a big "no parking sign". In other countries, the "no parking" sign is used to denote zones where parking is explicitly forbidden. In Helsinki, it seems to be used to mark parking zones. But how are these zones different to the ones marked with variant A above?
The sign on the top is not an official traffic sign but an informative panel or note posted by the city Public Works Department. It is not directly (legally) related to the sign below it.

It says SIIRTOKEHOTUS (lit. “A behest of removal”; a notification advising you to move your vehicle.) Then it reads KUUKAUDEN 2. TIISTAI, KELLO 9—15, and KUNNOSSAPITOTYÖ which translate as “MONTH’S 2nd TUESDAY” (the second Tuesday of each month), “AT 9—15 HOURS”, and “MAINTENANCE WORK”. So better keep your car off the zone at those hours on those weekdays or it will be towed as it disrupts maintenance work.

By now, you can probably read the actual traffic signs below that sign.

Ignoring the note from the Public Works Department, the difference to the “Variant A” is that this sign concerns regular street-side parking and not a designated parking zone. Parking on the side of a street is forbidden (by the sign 372), except for a fee during certain hours (sign 855a). Since there are no panels 851, 852, or 853 it appears the prohibition is in force at all other times. The information about the zone (“3”) and an exemption granted to the holders of the residential parking permit “K” are the same as in “Variant A”.

(This signpost is missing the additional panel (sign 845) instructing you to park on the curb but I don’t think you could even use that panel with a prohibitory sign as it would then prohibit parking on the curb, specifically, without paying for it during certain hours? And allow all parking if you just keep off the curb. Wouldn’t make much sense.)
Last edited by Jukka Aho on Mon May 06, 2013 7:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
znark

christoph.gysin
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:18 pm

Re: Parking rules

Post by christoph.gysin » Mon May 06, 2013 2:36 pm

Thanks for your detailed explanation.
Jukka Aho wrote:Parking on the side of a street is allowed by default but limited here in such way that it is forbidden during certain hours unless you pay the applicable fee and display the receipt of your payment on the windscreen of your car.
You seem to imply here that parking outside of these hours is allowed, which seems contrary to what others have stated.

I read the sign as:
- Do not park here on 2nd Tuesday from 9-15, or you get *towed*
Otherwise, parking here is generally forbidden, except:
- if you have parking permit K (then you can park whenever you want)
- from 9-21, where you can buy a ticket.

So for me, no parking during Tuesdays 9-15 or weekday evenings.

Correct?

Jukka Aho
Posts: 5237
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:46 am
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Parking rules

Post by Jukka Aho » Mon May 06, 2013 4:33 pm

christoph.gysin wrote:You seem to imply here that parking outside of these hours is allowed, which seems contrary to what others have stated.

I read the sign as:
- Do not park here on 2nd Tuesday from 9-15, or you get *towed*
Otherwise, parking here is generally forbidden, except:
- if you have parking permit K (then you can park whenever you want)
- from 9-21, where you can buy a ticket.

So for me, no parking during Tuesdays 9-15 or weekday evenings.

Correct?
Oops, I guess you’re correct. Fixed my above post.

It was difficult to find a source that would unambiguously confirm this. The text of the relevant act is somewhat ambiguous on what happens outside the hours indicated in the panel 855a, when used together with the prohibitory sign 372. It is easy to equate the time ranges given in panel 855a to the effect of the panels 851, 852, and 853 — as if it were a combined panel of some sort.

But I finally came across this explanation where someone had asked about the correct interpretation from the experts at Liikenneturva — a well-known local traffic safety organization. The answer seems to confirm that, if there’s only the sign 372 and panel 855a (no panels 851, 852, or 853), parking is prohibited outside the hours indicated by the panel 855a.

Then again, there’s this other post from someone else who has asked about roughly the same thing, from the same organization (!), and got a contradictory answer from the expert on duty... So... :?
znark

Upphew
Posts: 10748
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Parking rules

Post by Upphew » Mon May 06, 2013 8:12 pm

Image
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.

oompah18
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 11:35 am

Re: Parking rules

Post by oompah18 » Tue May 07, 2013 11:41 pm

Wow, am I glad I found this post today, not that it will pay the fine though, but it does explain why we got it!
A family member visitng us from UK this week, & just rented a car this morning. Seemed straightforward, the staff spoke very clear English, explaining everything about the car, & he paid up & took the car. Later, he parked it in a carpark (big, white P in blue square), and even found someone to tell him in English, that yes, the carpark was FREE, for up to 2 hrs. One hr later he returned to his car to find a 30eur fine. We have worked out that it seems to be due to a little sign just like the one posted , "Obligatory use of Parking Disc". We searched his hire car & found a parking disk, but shame that the Rental staff didn´t inform him that there was one in the car, or how to use it- now we know, indicate the time of ARRIVAL in carpark space.
Not being car owners or users, it was a shame we couldn´t forwarn him, but I am surprised the rental staff didn´t.
Anyway, as he has alraedy spent enough money just flying here just to see us, I promise to pay the fine :D
But VERY glad I found this post showing all the scary signs out there.
I think I`ll stick to cycling.....
Allie the Britmum, "äiti" to 3 boys, 10,9 and 7, & little princess, 4.

Jukka Aho
Posts: 5237
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:46 am
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Parking rules

Post by Jukka Aho » Wed May 08, 2013 12:33 pm

Cory wrote:Still confused about this .. If you drive in and the time is 12:15, can I set the disc at 13:00 or 12:30? :) I also try to get it as close to the time as possible on the disc but someone once told me that you can shift it up to the closest hour.
The closest forthcoming half an hour:

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/alkup/1990 ... Pid1908152

If you drive in at 12:15 (or 12:01 or 12:25, or whatever), you set the disc at 12:30. If you drive in at 12:33, you set the disc at 13:00, and so on.
znark

User avatar
Pursuivant
Posts: 15089
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:51 am
Location: Bath & Wells

Re: Parking rules

Post by Pursuivant » Wed May 08, 2013 1:43 pm

We should put this Jukka's post up as a sticky. My "parking quiz" pics as a 2nd. How about it?
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

User avatar
MagicJ
Posts: 2108
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:05 pm
Location: Uptown top rankin'

Re: Parking rules

Post by MagicJ » Wed May 08, 2013 10:29 pm

Pursuivant wrote:We should put this Jukka's post up as a sticky. My "parking quiz" pics as a 2nd. How about it?
I bought a car today so I've bookmarked it AND subscribed. :D
ImageImage

User avatar
jahasjahas
Posts: 899
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:08 am

Re: Parking rules

Post by jahasjahas » Wed May 08, 2013 11:51 pm

oompah18 wrote:shame that the Rental staff didn´t inform him that there was one in the car, or how to use it- now we know, indicate the time of ARRIVAL in carpark space.
Not being car owners or users, it was a shame we couldn´t forwarn him, but I am surprised the rental staff didn´t.
Is it the rental company's responsibility to inform you of local traffic laws? I guess they could offer some sort of "please be aware of these rules" list, but then they'd be responsible for leaving some other rule out of the list.

User avatar
Karhunkoski
Posts: 7034
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:44 pm
Location: Keski-Suomi

Re: Parking rules

Post by Karhunkoski » Thu May 09, 2013 8:15 am

Agree with jahasjahas. Knowing local laws and how to use equipment in the car is the responsibility of the renter. Although rental companies will explain stuff if you ask. How far is the rental company meant to go?

- Point out that there is a parking disc, how to you use, where to use it, provide a printout of this thread?

- Show there is a red warning triangle, tell when to use it, tell how to assemble it, where to place it, provide a tape measure for those who cannot estimate the correct location for it? Explain how to dismantle it, how to put it back in its box..

- Show that there is a spare wheel and how to get it out. Show how to use the jack, how to use the wheel nut spanner, show how to change a wheel?

All that would take an hour to explain. I certainly wouldn't want to go through a full briefing of equipment before being allowed to leave the Hertz compound :? And wouldn't want the price of the car rental to increase to cover the salary of someone explaining things to me.

But hats off to Oompah for covering the fine, that was a nice gesture. :D
Political correctness is the belief that it's possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.


Post Reply