Sweden or Finland

AnalystTherapist · Post by **AnalystTherapist** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:36 am

Hi everyone -

I was recently accepted to MSc Economics programs at two schools: Stockholm U and Hanken. Since I'm from the USA, I have to pay tuition fees in Sweden ($20K for 2 years) but Hanken is still free for me. My main motivation to apply to Stockholm U was to get credentials in Sweden and stay there after graduating (meaning I want to move to Sweden permanently). I don't have anything against Finland but I've always wanted to go to Sweden. I know Hanken is a predominately Swedish school and I wanted to know what kind of esteem Swedes hold for the school. I've read other threads where people say Hanken is "posh" and "good for networking" but I'm trying to find out how it's perceived in Sweden.

Also, if I become fluent in Finnish, is permanent residency relatively easy to achieve in Finland? I already have another MSc in Finance from LSE - would getting a job be difficult for me? I'm not an asylum seeker (from the news I read, it seems it would be better if I was but that is another topic). What about for Sweden given any credentials I get from Hanken?

Lastly, I've read other threads that say Finns are a bit racist (openly racist, unlike Swedes who may feel the same but are "better at hiding it") - is this true? I'm from the USA but I'm Asian and I don't want to be mistaken for an asylum seeker by a neo-Nazi group and get beat up on the train.

Thank you

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Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:15 am

Hanken as compared to any Swedish academia - I think the Swedes hold it like something the cat brought in

Dunno, LSE is there in top notch so I am wondering why even bother, unless you're going for PhD... I mean seriously

As far as refugees go - Asians were a "refugee" stereotype in the 80's with the Vietnamese boat people. These days they're either Africans or Middle-Easterners. You should worry about the refugees burning up the train in Sweden more.

AnalystTherapist · Post by **AnalystTherapist** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:29 am

Really? Swedes would think it that bad?

The point is to complete a degree in Sweden or Finland so I can settle in Stockholm. But I also want to write a thesis in Economics so I am sincerely interested in the programs as well.

I'm Asian Indian so I may be confused for a Muslim refugee - that is my worry.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:44 pm

If your our aim is Sweden, then having the "Swedish papers" and networking is essential... otherwise, you're in the Finnish "duckpond"...

Adrian42 · Post by **Adrian42** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:06 pm

AnalystTherapist wrote:Really? Swedes would think it that bad?

The point is to complete a degree in Sweden or Finland so I can settle in Stockholm.

I'd guess your degree from LSE might be valued higher in Sweden than a degree from Hanken.

Studying in Finland for getting a job in Sweden sounds like a stupid idea to me.

Can't you do a PhD in Sweden? That would sound like a more reasonable career option to me.

Adrian42 · Post by **Adrian42** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:09 pm

tummansininen wrote:but I believe employers must prove they can't hire an EU for the job before they can apply to take you

When the job requires special skills that require his Master's degree and he gets over € 3000 per month then he's a "Specialist" and this isn't needed.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:47 pm

Adrian42 wrote:
tummansininen wrote:but I believe employers must prove they can't hire an EU for the job before they can apply to take you
When the job requires special skills that require his Master's degree and he gets over € 3000 per month then he's a "Specialist" and this isn't needed.

The ½ year time after graduation = you already have RP -> you can be hired on the spot. Or at least that is how I understood it.

Adrian42 · Post by **Adrian42** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:40 pm

Upphew wrote:
Adrian42 wrote:
tummansininen wrote:but I believe employers must prove they can't hire an EU for the job before they can apply to take you
When the job requires special skills that require his Master's degree and he gets over € 3000 per month then he's a "Specialist" and this isn't needed.
The ½ year time after graduation = you already have RP -> you can be hired on the spot. Or at least that is how I understood it.

That's another option.

The half year is for how long a Residence Permit is given for job search after graduation, but the exemption from the "noone in the EU is available" stays.

Hippo · Post by **Hippo** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:59 am

By the way, unless you got a discount of some sort, your Econ master's at Stockholm would cost you around $30K for 2 years, not $20K. Added to the expensiveness of Stockholm, that is a lot to pay for just the prospect of settling in Sweden.

Adrian42 wrote:
Upphew wrote:
Adrian42 wrote:
When the job requires special skills that require his Master's degree and he gets over € 3000 per month then he's a "Specialist" and this isn't needed.
The ½ year time after graduation = you already have RP -> you can be hired on the spot. Or at least that is how I understood it.
That's another option.

The half year is for how long a Residence Permit is given for job search after graduation, but the exemption from the "noone in the EU is available" stays.

Can you post a link to the exact criteria regarding this? I'm interested in reading.

AnalystTherapist · Post by **AnalystTherapist** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:44 am

Adrian42 wrote:
AnalystTherapist wrote:Really? Swedes would think it that bad?

The point is to complete a degree in Sweden or Finland so I can settle in Stockholm.
I'd guess your degree from LSE might be valued higher in Sweden than a degree from Hanken.

Studying in Finland for getting a job in Sweden sounds like a stupid idea to me.

Can't you do a PhD in Sweden? That would sound like a more reasonable career option to me.

I want to write a Master's thesis in Economics so I can be qualified for a job at the IMF, hence the 2nd MSc. But I agree with you, this is a LONG route to Stockholm!

AnalystTherapist · Post by **AnalystTherapist** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:01 am

This is the only thing I could find. I wasn't able to locate any info on migri.

http://www.ulapland.fi/InEnglish/Studie ... inland.iw3

"Non-EU students who have received a degree and are interested to stay in Finland to look for work may submit an application for an additional residence permit after their graduation to search for work. This can be granted for up to six months. This has to be done at the police department before your residence permit for studies expires. Note that a new residence permit can also be issued on some other grounds, for example, postgraduate studies in the same discipline or family ties. When you have completed a degree in Finland, you are entitled to gainful employment without a residence permit for an employed person. Once you have found a job, you can apply for a residence permit on the basis of employment."

Hippo · Post by **Hippo** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:27 am

Thanks, I've found that piece too. I was more looking for something that confirms "the exemption from the 'if no one in the EU is available'" part.

Adrian42 · Post by **Adrian42** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:17 am

Hippo wrote:Thanks, I've found that piece too. I was more looking for something that confirms "the exemption from the 'if no one in the EU is available'" part.

http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset ... 40301.pdf‎

Section 79
(4) Aliens who have received a degree or other qualification in Finland have a right to gainful employment with a residence permit issued under section 45(1)(1) or section 47(1)(2) without the matter being given the consideration laid down in section 72(1).

Adrian42 · Post by **Adrian42** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:23 am

AnalystTherapist wrote:
Adrian42 wrote:
AnalystTherapist wrote:Really? Swedes would think it that bad?

The point is to complete a degree in Sweden or Finland so I can settle in Stockholm.
I'd guess your degree from LSE might be valued higher in Sweden than a degree from Hanken.

Studying in Finland for getting a job in Sweden sounds like a stupid idea to me.

Can't you do a PhD in Sweden? That would sound like a more reasonable career option to me.
I want to write a Master's thesis in Economics so I can be qualified for a job at the IMF, hence the 2nd MSc. But I agree with you, this is a LONG route to Stockholm!

You should order by priority:
- job at the IMF
- job in Sweden
- job in Finland
- free education

You cannot get all of these, and depending on what your highest priorities are you should make a decision.

If your first priority is the chance for a job at the IMF, then go for the second MSc.

If your second priority is finding a job in Stockholm as Plan B, then study in Stockholm. That makes it easier to get connections to companies in Stockholm. And your Swedish will be better since you will have more opportunities to practice your Swedish outside university as well as not learning the Finnish variant of the Swedish language.

Mumintroll · Post by **Mumintroll** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:30 pm

I come to this a bit late, so sorry. But, if you want to live in Sweden I think you should definitely consider studying at the Stockholm School of Economics. It is very highly regarded in Sweden. The typical Swedish MD/CEO has a degree from it.

Hanken is not that widely known in Sweden outside of academic circles. There is a shocking level of ignorance amongst many people in Sweden about the existence of the Swedish-speaking Finns in general. That said, obviously people in the field have generally heard of Hanken. Still, HHS is so highly respected that it would definitely be the better option.

That said, I agree with people above. The LSE is also highly respected in Sweden, just as it is pretty much everywhere else.

If you're looking to try and learn Swedish alongside your studies, then it would be easier to do in Stockholm. Whilst Hanken is a Swedish-speaking institution and you would be able to mix with plenty of Swedish-speaking Finns, ultimately Helsinki itself is dominated by the Finnish language. You can just about get by in Swedish, but not without difficulty and being replied to Finnish by restaurant/shop staff etc. Not everywhere even bothers with a menu in Swedish these days (although there are places that are frequented by Swedish-speakers where the situation is pretty fine). Helsinki's Swedish-speaking population are pretty much without exception 100% fluent in Finnish and often don't even bother to try and get served in Swedish and just start a conversation in Finnish. Sad, but that's the reality.

But perhaps you've already made your decision by now?

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