Someone of the residents expats who have tried the Työkkari?

[David Junior]

When you are really good in IT you will always find a good job.
I guess most of these people you know had a university degree in IT (or a related field) plus several years of relevant job experience.

But if you come from zero and think you can reach this level with a 1 month training course you are mistaken

Of course you are right about the timing ...

Becoming fluent in any programming language takes longer... I have some previous experiences with programming and during my doctoral years
I have been using SAS for Business Analytics, and I also have some elements of programming using an interpreter and a compiler, plus some knowledge
of IBM - PL/I for MVS & VM, and some HTML but nothing special really.

I was amazed to see in fact those extremely short courses .. some of even a few days at AEL. I don't understand what they are for.

I guess maybe a scripting language like JavaScript and elements of JQuery framework or alternatively some Python and django
and some more HTML XML
... could be possibly achieved in a semester .. a year..

which makes it sort of a trade off with the language course... either

(1) to study finnish full time .. for a year

(2) to practice in some JavaScript coding or Python, HTML et al...
(hoping someone then takes you mercifully on board for some internship even unpaid or underpaid at beginning to continue practice more and develop something)

Nothing is given for granted, of course.... other alternatives... what could they be..
jumping from Torni while wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with the Android Logo
and screaming "banzaaaaaaaaai" ...

We are trying to stay on the positive side of things ...



P. Aelius Hadrianus Imp.

Roving amiable little soul,
Body's companion and guest,
Now descending for parts
Colourless, unbending, and bare
Your usual distractions no more shall be there...

[Pursuivant]

But if you come from zero and think you can reach this level with a 1 month training course you are mistaken

Or an Indian company bidding for the tender... they always got people with 10 years experience in a product released last year

[Pursuivant]

Go on a course on HTML5! And brush up on the PL1 and MVS... Theres still someone getting hheir cics from the vax. You might land in jursky park

[Adrian42]

I was amazed to see in fact those extremely short courses .. some of even a few days at AEL. I don't understand what they are for.

A 2 day Photoshop or InDesign course makes much sense when you have to use the program at your work once in a while.

And when looking for a job, that can also be a small bonus point in your CV.

I guess maybe a scripting language like JavaScript and elements of JQuery framework or alternatively some Python and django
and some more HTML XML
... could be possibly achieved in a semester .. a year..

which makes it sort of a trade off with the language course... either

(1) to study finnish full time .. for a year

(2) to practice coding in some JavaScript or Python, HTML et al...

Looking at the current state of the Finnish IT job market:
When doing (2), you will after that year be one of 30 people applying for a junior position. Chances are that the job will go to someone who already has a few years of job experience in that area.

And while there are many jobs in IT where speaking Finnish is not required, in the majority of IT jobs it is required (when the company language is Finnish or when the company has many customers in Finland).

If Finnish language is the one thing that is missing for getting a job with your education in Finland, then (1) sounds like a more reasonable option.

[David Junior]

Go on a course on HTML5! And brush up on the PL1 and MVS... Theres still someone getting hheir cics from the vax. You might land in jursky park

Oh come on pursuivant... PL/1 is virtually useless (per se)...
as can be Pascal, IBM Fortran or Basic (non visual) or else... let's be honest ... but it is just to say that I have
some previous encounters with programming ...

it would have been great to have some previous knowledge of C/C++ ..... (sigh)

SAS on the other side ..
seems to be always something useful ..

[David Junior]

Guys... on a slightly different note, while talking about the bad conditions Nokia is in at present
I came across this piece of info .. I cannot believe it

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-575898 ... ing-nokia/

Huawei reportedly 'open' to acquiring Nokia
The Chinese smartphone giant is "considering" buying Nokia, but it all depends on whether or not the ailing Finnish phone maker finally cracks.

I am crossing all possible fingers for you guys...
try to resist ... at all cost .. I mean ..
NOKIA cannot and must not pass in the hands and under the "control"
of a chinese government sponsored firm like huawei ... absolutely not.

[Adrian42]

Huawei reportedly 'open' to acquiring Nokia
The Chinese smartphone giant is "considering" buying Nokia, but it all depends on whether or not the ailing Finnish phone maker finally cracks.

What's so new about that? Nokia's stocks have fallen so deep that there are already for quite some time speculations which companies might be interested in buying Nokia.

Huawei is one of the obvious contenders. And that article is not much more than speculation based on Huawei not completely ruling it out.

I am crossing all possible fingers for you guys...
try to resist ... at all cost .. I mean ..
NOKIA cannot and must not pass in the hands and under the "control"
of a chinese government sponsored firm like huawei ... absolutely not.

Could be worse, e.g. a US company.

I mean, a country that repeatedly complains about cyber-espionage by other countries while itself operating the by far largest cyber-espionage operation in the world, and in the non-cyber world operates prisons where inmates get tortured instead of ever getting a trial - China might not be much better, but at least the Chinese government is more honest.

[David Junior]

Could be worse, e.g. a US company.

I mean, a country that repeatedly complains about cyber-espionage by other countries while itself operating the by far largest cyber-espionage operation in the world, and in the non-cyber world operates prisons where inmates get tortured instead of ever getting a trial - China might not be much better, but at least the Chinese government is more honest.

I respectfully disagree...

Intel or Microsoft would always be waaaaay better alternatives... comparatively
it is true what you say about the US also operating their PRISM network of eavesdropping,
but at the very least the US is still a free and democratic country.

What if Nokia operations were to be sold to Russia ... just to make another example.

A new company would rise from the ashes of the old one ........ PUTINOKIA

From Marx .. to Mao

[Adrian42]

but at the very least the US is still a free and democratic country.

Free as in "Barack Obama decides freely whom he murders all over the world with his killer drones."?

And the "democratic country" is a joke when you look at the Florida 2000 election fraud that brought George W. Bush to power...

What if Nokia operations were to be sold to Russia ... just to make another example.

Russia has (just like Finland) subjected itself to the European Court of Human Rights.

So a Russian citizen who feels treated injust by Russian government and courts has a supranational appeal instance that is respected by the Russian government.

When the US put you into one of their torture prisons there is no supranational court whose rulings could bring you back into freedom.

[Adrian42]

but at the very least the US is still a free and democratic country.

An even better example why it is simply hilarious to claim the US were a free country:

http://mondediplo.com/openpage/guilty-u ... n-innocent

Decade-long prison sentences in solitary confinement for doing humanitarian work, and when your lawyer or a member of your family speaks to the press about your situation that person will also have to go to prison for a decade.

That is what is happening in the US today.
If that would ever happen in Russia, it would be overturned by the European Court of Human Rights.

[cors187]

If that would ever happen in Russia, it would be overturned by the European Court of Human Rights.

Does anyone in russia have to pay for this court?I mean is there an exchange of money between 2 seperate parties, governments,individuals,courts?

[Adrian42]

If that would ever happen in Russia, it would be overturned by the European Court of Human Rights.

Does anyone in russia have to pay for this court?

The European Court of Human Rights belongs to the Council of Europe, and the Russian government is paying this year over € 32 million as their share of the budget of the Council of Europe.

[snorlonikins]

Hi,

I'm currently on this course. I started in Feb 2013,the course ends Mar 2014.

20 students only. One location. Same tutor from Level 1 to Level 4. 60 days at each level. All instruction is given in Finnish, totally, from day 1.

Mon - Fri. 09:00 to 13:00. 1 x 15 minute break, 1 x 30 minute break. Summer holiday - the month of July. Breaks at Christmas, Easter and various National Days. During the week preceding the National/Religious days the class will be instructed in their meanings and origins.

2 months before the end of the course each student has to find themselves a 'work experience' placement for 6 weeks, to actually start to learn the 'spoken' Finnish. The course is intensive and does cover a hell of a lot of grammar.

Visits to places like Turku (we did that before the summer break) Tampere (we're doing that tomorrow). Also more local trips. About 7 IT sessions.

My classmates consist of a variety of nationalities: Polish, Bulgarian, Turkish, Egyptian, Chinese, Thai, Pakistani and me British. We all live in various locations, some form friendships if they're from the same ethnic group or live in the same location or have the same interests, there's no set format. And 'yes', we do have one who never does the homework, acts like a clown and plays with the mobile phone during the class.

Regards

[Pursuivant]

So - how do you feel - are you learning?

[Oombongo]

Its not an "I want" place, its "yes boss" place. If you get lucky with what they offer or can convince them of something being good, otherwise own initiative gets you scraping your ass with a stick.

Tell me about it. Back in 2011, when things got tough for me, työvoimatoimisto recommended me that I should go to Finnish language course despite being a Finnish citizen. So I said, "what the heck". Went to their assessment test, and to be honest it was kinda retarded. Really? ¾ + ½ = _______. 8 ÷ 4 = __. I would have enjoyed if they would have given some calculus related questions. Anyways, long story short, they put me in Finnish course 101 where they teach "hei, mitäs kuuluu? Minun nimeni on ______." As there was no point to piss off the bureaucracy so I decided to go ahead. The teacher was in dafuq mode and what the hell I am doing there, I was creating disturbance in the class by answering the questions and feeling like a one-eyed king among the blind, and doing the homework of other students. Guy gotta do something. It was the blatant waste of tax money, and they could have given the seat for another deserving student but no sir, the bureaucracy wanted to keep the unemployed stats down by 1.
Thankfully I got 3 positive replies for work so I went for the best one, otherwise I would be asked to do työharjoittelu who knows where.