muutama vs. vähän

[rendall]

What is the difference between muutama (a few, some) and vähän (a little, few)?

[AldenG]

In a nutshell, muutama applies to countables and vähän applies to masses like water, milk, confusion, love. (Some exceptions apply with vähän but you should use it that way.) Be aware that some words which are countable in English are uncountable mass nouns in Finnish, thus Rannalla oli vähän väkeä. There was a handful of people on the beach, there were (a) few people on the beach. There was a bit of humanity on the beach.

There is a difference between the meaning of a word and the translation of a word. Thus vähän gets translated in English to 'a few' deceptively often. But it still means 'a little' or 'little' alone. You can hear something like Kirjeessäsi oli vähän virheitä. (Better: Kirjeessäsi oli muutama virhe.)

There were (a) few mistakes in your letter. (Your letter had a handful of mistakes.)
There was an error or two in your letter.

As a new learner, you may want to stay away from using vähän with countables as in vähän virheitä, vähän ongelmia [problems]. You're not going to understand for a while where and how you can do it. Paljon is rather more flexible than vähän about countability. Then again you're probably only trying to read at this point, so just absorb what you see.

In general, when a Finn says something borderline, it's considered license; but when a foreigner says something borderline, it's assumed to be ignorance.

[Jukka Aho]

In general, when a Finn says something borderline, it's considered license; but when a foreigner says something borderline, it's assumed to be ignorance.

It works that way in every foreign language, just replace “Finn” with “native speaker”. ;)

[AldenG]

In general, when a Finn says something borderline, it's considered license; but when a foreigner says something borderline, it's assumed to be ignorance.

It works that way in every foreign language, just replace “Finn” with “native speaker”.

True, and I didn't mean it any other way.

[Rob A.]

In general, when a Finn says something borderline, it's considered license; but when a foreigner says something borderline, it's assumed to be ignorance.

So can I ask if it is "licence", or merely "ignorance", to use the verbal form of the noun, "licence"?.... [Just joking...honest]

[AldenG]

In general, when a Finn says something borderline, it's considered license; but when a foreigner says something borderline, it's assumed to be ignorance.

So can I ask if it is "licence", or merely "ignorance", to use the verbal form of the noun, "licence"?.... [Just joking...honest]

It is modern, that is to say American. But no hard feelings, we understand that Canada still maintains certain vestiges of what that great statesman Donald Rumsfeld succinctly characterized as Old Europe. ON EDIT: They lend colour to your language.

The s/c question is namely Old Europe, don't you know? Where it's happening today, "where the buzz is at," eh, is on the s/z frontier.

Having dispensed with that on this day of our liberation from Old World spellings and other quaintnesses, I might still soften my comments on vähän plus countables a bit. It's just a little much to expect a beginner to understand how it works with partitive plural as oposed to partitive singular before even knowing what a partitive is. Or even to get the distinction between meaning and translation. I should have simply stuck to the translation. But then the difference between muutama and vähän also becomes elusive -- though one can note that muutama singular is grammatically more akin to "one or two" than to either of the alternatives (some vs a few) suggested in the original question. Beyond that, it's not a beginner question; more knowledge is needed to understand most any answer that can withstand closer examination.

[rendall]

So can I ask if it is "licence", or merely "ignorance", to use the verbal form of the noun, "licence"?.... [Just joking...honest]

Of course, but for those among us who might be confused: in English, it is perfectly fine form to verb a noun. Any noun. Done and done.

[Rob A.]

In general, when a Finn says something borderline, it's considered license; but when a foreigner says something borderline, it's assumed to be ignorance.

So can I ask if it is "licence", or merely "ignorance", to use the verbal form of the noun, "licence"?.... [Just joking...honest]

It is modern, that is to say American. But no hard feelings, we understand that Canada still maintains certain vestiges of what that great statesman Donald Rumsfeld succinctly characterized as Old Europe. ON EDIT: They lend colour to your language.

The s/c question is namely Old Europe, don't you know? Where it's happening today, "where the buzz is at," eh, is on the s/z frontier.

Having dispensed with that on this day of our liberation from Old World spellings and other quaintnesses, I might still soften my comments on vähän plus countables a bit. It's just a little much to expect a beginner to understand how it works with partitive plural as oposed to partitive singular before even knowing what a partitive is. Or even to get the distinction between meaning and translation. I should have simply stuck to the translation. But then the difference between muutama and vähän also becomes elusive -- though one can note that muutama singular is grammatically more akin to "one or two" than to either of the alternatives (some vs a few) suggested in the original question. Beyond that, it's not a beginner question; more knowledge is needed to understand most any answer that can withstand closer examination.

Of course all this prompted me to go look at the wiki article on English-language spelling conventions.... and some of this stuff, even as a native English speaker, I didn't really know....there are apparently ancient reasons why some words end in '-ise" and other in '-ize', for example. Apparently one way means the word has a Greek origin; the other, Latin.....but I'm not sure I would rely on that.

I think it all just reminds one that much of language usage is simply based on memory and years of practice....something to remember when learning Finnish....you just have to keep going..."Practice, Practice, Practice".... or should I say...."Practise, Practise, Practise" ...Now I'm confused...

But still it seems just plain wrong ..or worse, ...disrespective, ....to think in terms of France's "Legion of Honor"....it just looks better, more emotional and more uplifting as "Legion of Honour".... And, hey, the French original has a "u" in there as well....

Oh, another point....on a recent trip to Europe I spent a little more time than normal looking a war memorials and grave inscriptions, etc...... With the British spellings you get to create those beautiful inscriptions were the "u" becomes a "v"...... "LEGION OF HONOVR"....really faux-Latin, I guess.....but, hey, you can't get more elegant than that....