Grandparents were Citizens?

[Kuu225]

I have been interested in Finland for as long as I can remember. My Grandma helped raise me when I was little and told me of stories and taught me some of the language. I am very curious to know if I or my mother could ever gain citizenship in Finland. I'll explain my situation below.

My Great Grandfather August, immigrated to the USA. Census records I could find about him say he was illegally here (His official status was "Alien"). My Grandmother, Lempi, was born and from the documents I can find it shows her parents were married. My Grandma only spoke Finnish at home as my Great Grandfather couldn't speak English. My Great Grandmother, Hilda, wasn't born in Finland but I believe her parents were. I don't believe my Grandma ever pursued actually gaining citizenship in Finland as I don't think she even knew it was possible (unless she automatically had it? I am a bit confused as whether she automatically was a citizen or had to ask for it). I wish I could ask my Grandma more questions now that I am a young adult but unfortunately she passed away last year (she was 86). I was very close to my Grandma, to the point I see her just like I see my biological mother.

It's hard to explain but even though I have never been to Finland, I feel like it's just as much of my country as the US is. It was such a huge part of her life and consequentially mine as well. Is there any chance I or my mother would be able to gain citizenship?

[Adrian42]

I don't believe my Grandma ever pursued actually gaining citizenship in Finland as I don't think she even knew it was possible (unless she automatically had it? I am a bit confused as whether she automatically was a citizen or had to ask for it).

Finland didn't allow dual citizenship before 2003.

(And from the information you gave it is not even clear whether your Great Grandfather August was ever a Finnish citizen.)

Is there any chance I or my mother would be able to gain citizenship?

Yes, the normal "work for five years in Finland" like for any alien.

[Kuu225]

Finland didn't allow dual citizenship before 2003.

(And from the information you gave it is not even clear whether your Great Grandfather August was ever a Finnish citizen.)

He came to the USA illegally from Finland and never became a citizen of the USA.

And if the laws were changed, even at a later date, it wouldn't apply to her (My Grandma) then, is basically what you're saying?

[ritan7471]

Given the age of your grandparents, it's possible that your Great-grandparents were not FInnish citizens but Russian citizens, so no, I don't think there was any automatic citizenship for their children, since it's likely that the then Finnish government had no notion of your grandmother's existence, so how could she ever have been a citizen?

My understanding there was an amnesty after Finland began allowing dual citizenship which allowed former Finnish citizens and possibly their children to gain Finnish citizenship, but that window has closed (my husband has some cousins in the US that this would have applied to, so I only heard about it second hand form them). I have heard that that window has closed, but in any case, the great-grandchild of a Russian citizen would probably have not been eligible in any case.

Edit: Here is a page from the immigration service regarding citizenship: http://www.migri.fi/finnish_citizenship

[Rip]

Census records I could find about him say he was illegally here (His official status was "Alien").

Non sequitur, but not really important here.

There was a "Finnish citizenship" even in the autonomic Grand Duchy under the Romanovs, as there were passports and border controls.
OP did not put much details to the post (especially regarding dates) but I consider it at least possible, perhaps even probable, that his/her grandmother was born a Finnish citizen, although she would have lost it at a later time. This would help getting a residence permit to OP or OP's mother in Finland, if they ever wanted to move here, but it would not help them to get a citizenship directly (it does not seem that OP's mother would have ever been a Finnish citizen). It is possible that a certain now expired part of the law would have given OP's mother the possibility to acquire Finnish citizenship by declaration, but that application should have been done in years 2003-2008.

(last of the court cases: https://www.finlandforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70800 )

[ritan7471]

Thanks for that information, Rip! I had only ever seen a manifest from when one of my husband's ancestors immigrated to the US, his nationality was listed as Russian, so I assumed OP's ancestors would have had Russian citizenship.

It's interesting that a great-grandmother who was Finnish would give an advantage to OP or even her mother when applying for a residence permit, another something I didn't know.

[Rip]

It's interesting that a great-grandmother who was Finnish would give an advantage to OP or even her mother when applying for a residence permit, another something I didn't know.

You would need a grandparent (great-grandparent would not be sufficient) that at least was a citizen once, but it seemed likely that in this case the grandmother would have inherited the citizenship at birth if her father was born Finnish and had not become a naturalized citizen of USA.

[Kuu225]

Unfortunately I do not know much regarding my Great Grandfather as he took off not long after my Grandma was born. The only information I have is his name, a rough age estimate and that he put his country of origin as "Finland". If I remember correctly he was around 40ish when he had my Grandma (in the 20s) so I'm really not sure how that would have worked regarding Finnish/Russian citizenship. The only thing I can say for sure, whether it matters or not, is none of my family knew Russian. The only language they could speak was Finnish.

I was mainly interested in the resident permit as I've seriously contemplated moving there, at least for a while. I was very close to my Grandma. Even though she didn't technically live in Finland herself, she would still talk about it. It was still something that was very actively talked about and ingrained in the family. My Grandmas first language was Finnish, all her family spoke it etc. I want to learn the language (beyond what little I know) and what better way to both learn it but also understand where my family came from? I realize I am technically the "4th Generation" but like I said above my Grandma raised me for a time when I was little. She instilled her beliefs, culture etc on me. I realize that probably doesn't mean much when applying for the resident permit but I wanted to explain a little better why it's important to me and that I am not looking to hold something to wave around and look cool. I do plan on returning to Finland, whether that's to live or to visit.

[Adrian42]

Unfortunately I do not know much regarding my Great Grandfather as he took off not long after my Grandma was born. The only information I have is his name, a rough age estimate and that he put his country of origin as "Finland".

I don't see any chance for you for getting a shortcut to EU citizenship through him, but if you just want to search for more information about him http://www.migrationinstitute.fi/emreg/index_e.php is a good starting point.

I do plan on returning to Finland, whether that's to live or to visit.

A side-note on your desire to become a Finnish citizen:
Are you male or female?
I assume you are aware that Finland has conscription.

[Rip]

I doubt there much risk for OP becoming a citizen before fist living several years here and learning the language (and even then it is optional). I think he/she has a good possibility that for getting a residence permit based on Finnish origins (the terms which are quite good: http://www.migri.fi/remigration/descend ... sh_citizen

For OP:
Perhaps Migri can give instructions but I presume you'd need to show that you:
A) you are a grandchild of your grandmother (should be easy)
B) Your grandmother was born in wedlock when her father was not a naturalized citizen of USA (probably you can manage that), which as far as I have understood, would have made your grandmother a Finnish citizen at the time her birth.
C) That this great grandfather of yours was indeed a Finnish citizen / person born in Finland (Seem to be the most difficult part. Adrian's links look useful; try to see also what kind of documentation on his origins you can find in American sources (some local genealogical society perhaps can help)

[Peni]

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