Children left home alone - the Finnish way

[CH]

There is nothing 'over cautious' about ensuring the safety and health of a child!

Some people might disagree http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... itain.html

Oh, yes... any man out alone with a child is of course a pedophile. Not to mention a lone man with a camera where there are children! (Oh, *gasp* a camera! He might be a terrorist, too!) Better arm grandpa with some documents proving the relation before taking granddaughter to the park (I'm only half joking... I suggest some photos on the phone with grandpa and child obviously taken over time).

[AldenG]

It's also true that Britain and the US exist in the "big world" while Finland is still part of the "small world." That leads to different perceptions but also different realities of risks like child abduction.

Nobody can know for certain but many experts think child abductions are no more common today than they were in the 1950's or maybe even before WWII. Other kinds of crimes against children (except trafficking in pornographic images) are almost certainly less common today because societal expectations and vigilance are higher now, while it has become a lot harder to hide such things.

Abductors are more mobile now, especially in countries like Finland that didn't have near-universal car ownership a few decades ago the way the US has had pretty much since the end of WWII. At the same time, the awareness and tools of law enforcement are far superior now in countries both large and small. The advantage lies distinctly on law enforcement's side, you'd have to say. By far the majority of abductions (the definition of which has admittedly expanded) within the US end safely, at least for the child, within a few hours. They're rarely heard of past the local evening news, if even there.

The print and video tabloids do their best, of course, to make us see a potential abductor loitering suspiciously under every lamppost. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes that aspect of tabloid culture to propagate within Finland.

[AldenG]

Here's a website from an American mom in NYC who set up Free-Range Kids.

Quite a few of the media links have expired, but here's a provocative 45-minute interview with her on one of the smarter public radio programs: Lenore Skenazy Interviewed on Radio Times

Those of us who grew up the old way are often horrified and haven't the slightest notion how far the nannification era has progressed.

Those of us who grew up or are currently bringing up children the new way are often horrified and haven't the slightest notion how different the pre-nannification era was.

There are some eyebrow-raising comments about the situation in England about 12:00 from the end of the interview. They only touch briefly on the subject but they make it sound like pedophile hysteria is rampant there.

The overall trend and discussion isn't only about over-protection, it's about over-programming of childhood. The tide does seem to be trying to turn a bit back toward some kind of rational balance. And there's starting to be a lot more recognition that we've increasingly been denying kids the right to mature normally and hit adulthood with the skills, self-reliance, and intrinsic motivation they will need.

[irnbru]

I'm sure you have some numbers to back that statement up.

You know you've been in Finland too long when you turn into Statto.

We all know your kid is more likely to be abused by someone they know. In Finland they are more likely to be being looked after by someone you know while you're at work. It's all very well saying child abduction doesn't happen very often here, its not going to be very reassuring when they find your kid dead that he/she was one of the 0.002% or whatever.

[Adrian42]

I'm sure you have some numbers to back that statement up.

You know you've been in Finland too long when you turn into Statto.

We all know your kid is more likely to be abused by someone they know. In Finland they are more likely to be being looked after by someone you know while you're at work. It's all very well saying child abduction doesn't happen very often here, its not going to be very reassuring when they find your kid dead that he/she was one of the 0.002% or whatever.

Your kid is much more likely to die by drowning than being abducted by a stranger.
Your worries don't seem to be aligned to this reality.

[Upphew]

Your worries don't seem to be aligned to this reality.

When has the thinkabouthechildren people cared about reality or sensibility?

[Upphew]

I don't like that the thinkabouthechildren posse dictate draconian laws and create yet another pullamössösukupolvi*, but I do like when missing children are cared for and found. Thus this: http://notfound.org/index.php
I stumbled upon that literally just after I posted the previous post. Ctrl+t, amazon.co.uk and enter.

*I think I'm part of previous pullamössösukupolvi, as I learned to drink coffee with help of pullamössö...

[CH]

We all know your kid is more likely to be abused by someone they know. In Finland they are more likely to be being looked after by someone you know while you're at work.

Um... what? I don't follow your logic at all. I would say most, all around the world, leave their children with somebody they know while they are at work. Unless you are saying that one parent should stay at home... I guess that is what you are saying in a round about way, because otherwise I have no idea what you are trying to say (I assumed you didn't mean that we should leave our children with somebody we don't know because as strangers they are less likely to abuse our children... because that would be just... um... abuse of logic). But the original point was about Finland being a pedophile heaven due to children being alone at home, so...?

It's all very well saying child abduction doesn't happen very often here, its not going to be very reassuring when they find your kid dead that he/she was one of the 0.002% or whatever.

What was the last time a child was killed by a pedophile in Finland? Can you pull anything more recent than "Jammu-setä"? There are much bigger risks to worry about, like traffic on the way home from school (there seems to be every year at least a few kids that are hit by a car on their way to/from school). But yeah... let's start with one of the waaaaay smaller risks. How about if a meteorite strikes?

[AldenG]

How about if a meteorite strikes?

There's insurance for that now, isn't there?

[irnbru]

Um... what? I don't follow your logic at all.

I'm referring to the original post. It's ridiculous school finishes at 12pm for 6-7 year olds here and then after that they are not being looked after well sometimes even if they go to an after school club.

Here is a real life example from yesterday. My boy goes to the afternoon club (in his school) after school finishes at 12pm. One of his classmates was supposed to go there yesterday to the same club but he had a fever and stayed home. His mum forgot to ring and say he wasn't coming (yes she messed up). She realised she hadn't let them know he wasn't there late in the afternoon. No one has contacted her though.

So no one at the afternoon club noticed this kid hasn't showed up or if they have no one has contacted the parent to let them know the kid hasn't showed up. Afternoon club finishes at 16:00. This kid might have just left the school after 12pm (because no one is tracking who stays and who goes) so if something had happened this kid would have been missing for 4 hours before someone noticed. This is a 6 year old kid.

Not to worry though because bad things don't happen to kids very often in Finland and anyway the kid will probably drown or get run over.

[irnbru]

I'm going to assume that the bull-in-the-Chinashop type behavior that appears by the way you chose your words on this thread is not the manner in which you communicate with teachers, child-care workers, etc. Way too aggressive for people to respect your concerns and work with you to make changes.

No idea what you're talking about. Glad your kids are just fine though.

[Upphew]

Here is a real life example from yesterday. My boy goes to the afternoon club (in his school) after school finishes at 12pm. One of his classmates was supposed to go there yesterday to the same club but he had a fever and stayed home. His mum forgot to ring and say he wasn't coming (yes she messed up). She realised she hadn't let them know he wasn't there late in the afternoon. No one has contacted her though.

How you knew that the classmate had fever and was staying home?

[irnbru]

How you knew that the classmate had fever and was staying home?

My boys mum and this boys mum are friends.

[CH]

Um... what? I don't follow your logic at all.

I'm referring to the original post. It's ridiculous school finishes at 12pm for 6-7 year olds here and then after that they are not being looked after well sometimes even if they go to an after school club.

Now you totally lost me... how does

We all know your kid is more likely to be abused by someone they know. In Finland they are more likely to be being looked after by someone you know while you're at work. It's all very well saying child abduction doesn't happen very often here, its not going to be very reassuring when they find your kid dead that he/she was one of the 0.002% or whatever.

connect to the above? I'm sure there is a piece I'm missing, but I honestly cannot figure it out. Are you saying the after school club leaders are kidnapping and abusing the kids?

Here is a real life example from yesterday. My boy goes to the afternoon club (in his school) after school finishes at 12pm. One of his classmates was supposed to go there yesterday to the same club but he had a fever and stayed home. His mum forgot to ring and say he wasn't coming (yes she messed up). She realised she hadn't let them know he wasn't there late in the afternoon. No one has contacted her though.

Is the afternoon care in connection with the school? If I don't remember totally wrong, at least for my daughter's school the first graders were walked the first week or so from class to the afternoon club, so the leaders might have got the information from the teacher.

Not to worry though because bad things don't happen to kids very often in Finland and anyway the kid will probably drown or get run over.

Yea, see... we are all totally incompetent parents here in this country, who gets our kids killed more or less daily, sometimes twice before breakfast.

[irnbru]

You're just being a bell now for the sake of it

Um... what? I don't follow your logic at all.

I'm referring to the original post. It's ridiculous school finishes at 12pm for 6-7 year olds here and then after that they are not being looked after well sometimes even if they go to an after school club.

Now you totally lost me... how does

We all know your kid is more likely to be abused by someone they know. In Finland they are more likely to be being looked after by someone you know while you're at work. It's all very well saying child abduction doesn't happen very often here, its not going to be very reassuring when they find your kid dead that he/she was one of the 0.002% or whatever.

connect to the above? I'm sure there is a piece I'm missing, but I honestly cannot figure it out. Are you saying the after school club leaders are kidnapping and abusing the kids?

Here is a real life example from yesterday. My boy goes to the afternoon club (in his school) after school finishes at 12pm. One of his classmates was supposed to go there yesterday to the same club but he had a fever and stayed home. His mum forgot to ring and say he wasn't coming (yes she messed up). She realised she hadn't let them know he wasn't there late in the afternoon. No one has contacted her though.

Is the afternoon care in connection with the school? If I don't remember totally wrong, at least for my daughter's school the first graders were walked the first week or so from class to the afternoon club, so the leaders might have got the information from the teacher.

Not to worry though because bad things don't happen to kids very often in Finland and anyway the kid will probably drown or get run over.

Yea, see... we are all totally incompetent parents here in this country, who gets our kids killed more or less daily, sometimes twice before breakfast.