Where can i find a Vaccine lawyer or legal aid in Helsinki

[luckykitty]

Hi, a few years back, I had taken a tetanus shot after I stepped on a sewing needle, at the recommendation of the public health nurse. However, I had suffered adverse reactions and having gone there the next day, the nurse grumpy said "no it can't be the vaccine, it definitely can't be" (how does she even know?)

Anyhow, recently my friend sued his insurance because of narcolepsy caused by the flu vaccine, so I was wondering where to go if I have a vaccine induced injury, it's not as bad as narcolepsy but definitely affects my life.


Cheers
LK

[rinso]

so I was wondering where to go if I have a vaccine induced injury

You don't need a lawyer, you need a research team.
First find some prove that your illness is related to the vaccine (or at least an indication that it could be) not just your feeling.
Since tetanus shots are quite common, there should be research on the side effects.

Without at least an indication of a connection a lawyer wouldn't waste time on this case.
If you want sponsored legal aid, you really need a solid foundation for your case.

[Adrian42]

Anyhow, recently my friend sued his insurance because of narcolepsy caused by the flu vaccine,

Ask your friend for the address of his lawyer.

[luckykitty]

Anyhow, recently my friend sued his insurance because of narcolepsy caused by the flu vaccine

Did he/she actually take the insurance company to court? or do you mean the compensation that was received from the state? Because in the latter case there was no suing. The state realized it screwed up big time when they rushed people to take the vaccine which turned out to cause narcolepsy so they had to cover the costs of treatment.

He sued his insurance company. Yea good point I'll just ask for his lawyer, but I think he has a lot of money I'm not sure if I could afford suing if it's hard to prove. In the states there's a lot of these vaccine case lawyers but here not so much . I have a doctors diagnosis for a nerve problem but I'm not sure if I can prove its from the vaccine. I wish I registered an official complaint to the health clinic when it happened, but I just went in there and told them, and that's not anything written and concrete.

[rinso]

I wish I registered an official complaint to the health clinic when it happened, but I just went in there and told them, and that's not anything written and concrete.

You still can write an official complain letter and refer in it to your conversation.
But in the end it comes down to "he said - she said" and without prove that the vaccine is the culprit you have no leg to stand on in court.

[luckykitty]

I wish I registered an official complaint to the health clinic when it happened, but I just went in there and told them, and that's not anything written and concrete.

You still can write an official complain letter and refer in it to your conversation.
But in the end it comes down to "he said - she said" and without prove that the vaccine is the culprit you have no leg to stand on in court.

Yeah thats a problem .
For everyone elses reference, who is it to actually complain to? is there a head of the entire health system in finland to write to or?

[Adrian42]

Anyhow, recently my friend sued his insurance because of narcolepsy caused by the flu vaccine

Did he/she actually take the insurance company to court? or do you mean the compensation that was received from the state? Because in the latter case there was no suing. The state realized it screwed up big time when they rushed people to take the vaccine which turned out to cause narcolepsy so they had to cover the costs of treatment.

He sued his insurance company. Yea good point I'll just ask for his lawyer, but I think he has a lot of money I'm not sure if I could afford suing if it's hard to prove. In the states there's a lot of these vaccine case lawyers but here not so much .

In the US a jury might grant a a few million Dollars compensation when you got burns after you spilled the coffee you bought at McDonalds over your legs...

Courts in Finland are much more reasonable.

I have a doctors diagnosis for a nerve problem but I'm not sure if I can prove its from the vaccine. I wish I registered an official complaint to the health clinic when it happened, but I just went in there and told them, and that's not anything written and concrete.

In any case the question is whether anyone did anything wrong, and whether this wrong action is the cause of your problems.

The only wrong action I see so far is that the nurse told it it cannot possibly be caused by the vaccine - at a point where it had already happened.

Any non-placebo medication also has side effects, and when a known very rare side effect affects you that's simply bad luck.

[AldenG]

In the US a jury might grant a a few million Dollars compensation when you got burns after you spilled the coffee you bought at McDonalds over your legs...

Courts in Finland are much more reasonable.

You reflect a common but ignorant misperception of what actually happened in that case. Among other things, that McDonald's outlet had ignored repeated citations from its local health department for keeping the coffee at an illegally high temperature which not only would cause instant third-degree burns but also weakened the structure of the plastic cups it was served in to the point of virtually guaranteeing that an accident of this nature was only a question of time. Those health department temperature regulations exist for good reason. The local McDonald's outlet also responded arrogantly and insultingly to earlier requests for reasonable compensation based on their failure to follow regulations or to modify their behavior after being legally cited. Their whole attitude was F-you and F the effing health department.

It's a lot like a tram driver being punished for crippling a pedestrian while speeding against the traffic signals, after previously having received several citations for speeding and for driving through stop signals. And then publicly calling the pedestrian a dumbass for slipping and falling on a wet, leafy track. In Finland, criminal prosecution would follow from such a scenario.

[AldenG]

Hi, a few years back, I had taken a tetanus shot after I stepped on a sewing needle, at the recommendation of the public health nurse. However, I had suffered adverse reactions and having gone there the next day, the nurse grumpy said "no it can't be the vaccine, it definitely can't be" (how does she even know?)

Anyhow, recently my friend sued his insurance because of narcolepsy caused by the flu vaccine, so I was wondering where to go if I have a vaccine induced injury, it's not as bad as narcolepsy but definitely affects my life.


Cheers
LK

Are you talking about localized nerve damage or a globalized toxicity or immunological reaction?

Localized nerve damage from injections is a well-recognized risk. They can happen even when injecting plain saline -- or injecting nothing at all. You'd have an easier time finding authorities to support your case for that, though as Adrian42 points out, Finnish courts aren't prone to compensate you for bad luck. Flagrant malpractice might be different, but even there the scale of compensation is a whole other and smaller universe than in the US. What is the situation in the UK? It's true that damaging a nerve by injection is a clumsy mistake that was not your fault, but the risk of that does tend to be considered an acceptable one inherent to the procedure. The challenge you'd face with that is that you did step on a needle. How would you prove it was the injection needle and not the sewing needle that caused the nerve damage? How would you even know that for yourself?

Any kind of more globalized reaction specifically tied to the biological activity of the vaccine per se will be a very hard sell. The Pandemrix/narcolepsy association was a special case linked to a specific ingredient. For the most part, even if you were right, it would be unbelievably difficult to persuade a court of most supposed vaccine reactions because you're unlikely to find medical authorities who will support you in court. Courts are all about evidence and authorities. Hypothetically it is not at all difficult to be right but unable to find evidence or authorities to support your rightness. The risks that ARE recognized in vaccines are deemed unavoidable and less dangerous than the act of remaining unvaccinated. As soon as you label your case a "vaccine case" you are trying to climb the face of a cliff. Rightly or wrongly, when you say "vaccine reaction" all the people who matter to your case are quick to write you off as a kook.

[CH]

While googling I ran into this one: http://www.potilasvahinkoapu.fi/english.php

Anyway, the usual way to get compensation for any patient injuries would be through the Finnish Patient Insurance Center: http://www.pvk.fi/en/
There is a nice write up here, but it's unfortunately only in Finnish: http://www.potilaanoikeudet.fi/oikeus-h ... ahingosta/

[Adrian42]

In the US a jury might grant a a few million Dollars compensation when you got burns after you spilled the coffee you bought at McDonalds over your legs...

Courts in Finland are much more reasonable.

You reflect a common but ignorant misperception of what actually happened in that case. Among other things, that McDonald's outlet had ignored repeated citations from its local health department for keeping the coffee at an illegally high temperature

Do you have a source for that claim that the responsible local health department had told McDonald's before that the temperature was illegally high?
As far as I know even the lawyer of the victim claimed only that such a high temperature causes third degree burns quickly, not that it was illegal or that McDonald's had gotten repeated citations from its local health department.

And whose fault it was is one thing you might argue about (even the jury said that it was partially the fault of the woman).

But even if you'd say that it was only the fault of McDonald's, then awarding nearly 3 million Dollar (adjusted for inflation that would be around 4.5 million Dollar today) to the victim is by a factor of 100 too high.
She initially wanted 20.000 Dollar, and had she gotten all that she wanted that it would have been a reasonable compensation considering the circumstances (if you assume it was McDonald's fault).

It's a lot like a tram driver being punished for crippling a pedestrian while speeding against the traffic signals, after previously having received several citations for speeding and for driving through stop signals. And then publicly calling the pedestrian a dumbass for slipping and falling on a wet, leafy track. In Finland, criminal prosecution would follow from such a scenario.

Criminal prosecution would in this case anyway follow in either country.

[Adrian42]

Any kind of more globalized reaction specifically tied to the biological activity of the vaccine per se will be a very hard sell. The Pandemrix/narcolepsy association was a special case linked to a specific ingredient. For the most part, even if you were right, it would be unbelievably difficult to persuade a court of most supposed vaccine reactions because you're unlikely to find medical authorities who will support you in court. Courts are all about evidence and authorities. Hypothetically it is not at all difficult to be right but unable to find evidence or authorities to support your rightness.

And even if she would be able to prove it it wouldn't matter, since the actual problem is:

The risks that ARE recognized in vaccines are deemed unavoidable and less dangerous than the act of remaining unvaccinated.

It is well-known and documented in the patient information leaflet that a tetanus vaccination has a rare risk of e.g. causing the Guillain–Barré syndrome.

When you actually get that, it is neither the fault of the manufacturer nor of the public health nurse - it is simply bad luck.

[Rip]

In any case the question is whether anyone did anything wrong, and whether this wrong action is the cause of your problems.

The only wrong action I see so far is that the nurse told it it cannot possibly be caused by the vaccine - at a point where it had already happened.

Any non-placebo medication also has side effects, and when a known very rare side effect affects you that's simply bad luck.

You can be compensated also for serious, rare complications, were you can really only blame your miserable luck (but the threshold is high):
http://www.pvk.fi/fi/korvauksenhakijall ... n-vahinko/