closed

[USER]

closed

[Adrian42]

i receive a living allowance (not unemployment £$ as anyway from working in my slow business i get 200-300eu a month)since march 2013 but i ve been told that from september if my business will still be slow i ll HAVE to close my business...

If I understand the basic problem correctly:
At the moment, you are getting more than twice as much money from the government than your current tiny income from your Tmi.
Due to your Tmi, you are not available as a jobseeker to take a job or participate in labour market measures.

It is obvious why that is not an acceptable state for a longer time, and half a year sounds like a reasonable time to determine whether your Tmi will again generate sufficient income for you.

[rinso]

I know people with their own (full time) business who get long time living/housing allowances.
(don't know the details tho)
But that are single women with small children, so that might trigger other criteria.

[Adrian42]

I know people with their own (full time) business who get long time living/housing allowances.
(don't know the details tho)
But that are single women with small children, so that might trigger other criteria.

When someone receives social assistance because a reasonable income plus housing allowance plus possibly other allowances are not enough, that is a completely different situation.

But an income of € 200-300 per month is clearly not a full-time business.

As far as I understand it, the problem of the OP is that due to his Tmi business he has not registered himself as a jobseeker.
Therefore, he is not eligible for unemployment benefits (that would remove his need for social assistance).

[USER]

Adrian got the point,
that's what they told me, as long as im registered as "tominimi owner"i cannot be eligible to unemployment benefits,
Thing is...i do not want the unemployment benefits cos, anyway, even due to my personal problems (that do reduce my availability to work full-time) i do want to keep my toiminimi on cos, as i said, i ve kept a few clients and i do not want to lose em.

so, does anyone know about these -20 or -40% reduction in case i ll decide NOT TO GIVE UP MY TOIMINIMI?!?
also id like to know if these "-20%" and/or "-40%) are to be considered TEMPORARY? if they are i d like to know how many months i ll have to wait before i ll get the full sum.
also, the other way round, id like 2 know if after a "x" months of -20 - -40% they can decide to leave me with NO BENEFITS.

thanks a lot for your replies,
very handy.

[Adrian42]

Adrian got the point,
that's what they told me, as long as im registered as "tominimi owner"i cannot be eligible to unemployment benefits,
Thing is...i do not want the unemployment benefits cos, anyway, even due to my personal problems (that do reduce my availability to work full-time) i do want to keep my toiminimi on cos, as i said, i ve kept a few clients and i do not want to lose em.

I'd guess a major part of your problem is that you decided to reduce the amount of business your Tmi does, but you are not telling the reason for the decrease of your business (your personal problems) to the social worker.

So for the social worker it appears that your business is simply no longer sufficient for you to make a living.

If you have an acceptable reason why you are unable to work full-time, you are not required to register as jobseeker.

also id like to know if these "-20%" and/or "-40%) are to be considered TEMPORARY? if they are i d like to know how many months i ll have to wait before i ll get the full sum.

The reduction can only be ordered for 2 months at a time, but it can be ordered again immediately afterwards.

also, the other way round, id like 2 know if after a "x" months of -20 - -40% they can decide to leave me with NO BENEFITS.

No.

But they might reclaim everything they pay from you later.

[USER]

thanks adrian,
i really appreciate the help and u sound very competent...thanks so much.

i ve got one more question :
u said they might claim for EVERYTHING they paid me later...how/when this happens? ofc i dont want to find myself in debts and nobody ever talk me that they MIGHT ask me to pay the allowance bk in "x" months/years!
would u explain me more about it...im freaking out now!

[Adrian42]

thanks adrian,
i really appreciate the help and u sound very competent...thanks so much.

i ve got one more question :
u said they might claim for EVERYTHING they paid me later...how/when this happens? ofc i dont want to find myself in debts and nobody ever talk me that they MIGHT ask me to pay the allowance bk in "x" months/years!
would u explain me more about it...im freaking out now!

No matter what you are doing you will continue to be a human being with all human rights, and as long as you are a Finnish citizen or otherwise in a legal state where the Finnish government cannot revoke your right to live in Finland, it is therefore not possible for the Finnish government to completely cut your benefits.

But when granting the social allowance for another month (minus the 20/40%) it can be ordered that the money you will get will be reclaimed from you, since you have neglected your duty to make an independent living by not closing down your Tmi and registering as a jobseeker.

(Or if you received social assistance fraudulently by providing false information or not reporting essential information it can always be reclaimed from you.)

[Pursuivant]

It does not always seem intelligent or fair, but the welfare system is "not designed to support businesses", which a TMI is. So they insist you from splitting the personal and legal entities as otherwise they would be giving you an unfair competition benefit. It is a question of choice. You can choose to keep the TMI - but you also choose not to be on benefits. You can choose to be on benefits, but then you also choose to become "unemployed". You can only choose between these two options, not freely pick what part you want. Unfortunately the TE-keskus looks myopically of what is "being available on the labor market" - if they would agree that the TMI does not constitute any hindrance to your potential "employability" then maybe. At the end of the day they want you to "fit in the box" and if you want and they want, their want is bigger so they win.

[mmkhi]

But when granting the social allowance for another month (minus the 20/40%) it can be ordered that the money you will get will be reclaimed from you, since you have neglected your duty to make an independent living by not closing down your Tmi and registering as a jobseeker.

Would it be possible to register as a jobseeker (without asking unemployment benefits) but not to close down his TMI?

[Adrian42]

But when granting the social allowance for another month (minus the 20/40%) it can be ordered that the money you will get will be reclaimed from you, since you have neglected your duty to make an independent living by not closing down your Tmi and registering as a jobseeker.

Would it be possible to register as a jobseeker (without asking unemployment benefits) but not to close down his TMI?

Continuing to get social assistance paid from Finnish taxes, because he voluntarily doesn't ask for unemployment benefits?
No, that won't work.

[USER]

THANKS for your support people,
now everything sounds more clear.
really appreciated

so, just to make sure i got it all :

i ve got two options :

A) keep TNI open and get a -20 / -40% until i close it or until i ll be able to work full time again
B) close toiminimi and just be unemployed even if i d still have offers (the few clients i ve kept)

all correct?

thanks

[mmkhi]

But when granting the social allowance for another month (minus the 20/40%) it can be ordered that the money you will get will be reclaimed from you, since you have neglected your duty to make an independent living by not closing down your Tmi and registering as a jobseeker.

Would it be possible to register as a jobseeker (without asking unemployment benefits) but not to close down his TMI?

Continuing to get social assistance paid from Finnish taxes, because he voluntarily doesn't ask for unemployment benefits?
No, that won't work.

The question was: "can he register as a job seeker at unemployment office and have a TMI at the same time?"
Not: "can he continue to get social assistance paid from Finnish taxes, because ...."

[cors187]

THANKS for your support people,
now everything sounds more clear.
really appreciated

so, just to make sure i got it all :

i ve got two options :

A) keep TNI open and get a -20 / -40% until i close it or until i ll be able to work full time again
B) close toiminimi and just be unemployed even if i d still have offers (the few clients i ve kept)

all correct?

thanks

Dont close any hope of keeping your head above the flotsam and jetsam that is the Finnish Unemployment circus.

[Adrian42]

Continuing to get social assistance paid from Finnish taxes, because he voluntarily doesn't ask for unemployment benefits?
No, that won't work.

The question was: "can he register as a job seeker at unemployment office and have a TMI at the same time?"

Registering as a jobseeker implies that he is available for a full-time job (or full-time labor market training) - seeking a job implies that you can take a job.

Not: "can he continue to get social assistance paid from Finnish taxes, because ...."

But that was exactly what you suggested:

Would it be possible to register as a jobseeker (without asking unemployment benefits)

His only problem is that he wants to continue to get Finnish tax money.
Without that, he could do whatever he wants to do.