Moving to Joensuu from Scotland

WelshManJon · Post by **WelshManJon** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:03 am

Good morning all and hi, I am new here, my name is Jon. My wife and I are planning to move to Joensuu in the very near future. My wife is a Finnish citizen though has been living abroad all her adult life so to much has changed in Finland. We need a few basic answers concerning the move. 1. Does anyone know the waiting time for city housing in Joensuu. 2. We are travelling with a dog does anyone know any dog friendly places we can live while we are waiting for city housing. 3. Does anyone have a summer cottage or similar they could rent us cheaply for the period it takes to get city housing. We are both in our late 40s. We would both have to look for work once we have arrived. What legal documents would I need to have stamped with an apostille for them to be legalised for Finland. Honestly what are our chances of driving to Joensuu with car packed, dog in car and arriving in Joensuu and surviving. I look foward to your comments positive and negative.

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Adrian42 · Post by **Adrian42** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:23 am

WelshManJon wrote:My wife and I are planning to move to Joensuu in the very near future.

Why?

WelshManJon wrote:We are both in our late 40s. We would both have to look for work once we have arrived.

You didn't mention what relevant qualifications you two have.

Joensuu is a relatively small town, over 10% of the population are students (many of them desperately looking for work), and unemployment is usually higher than the Finnish average.

For someone in the late 40s job opportunities are not good there.
For someone in the late 40s who doesn't speak Finnish fluently job opportunities are near zero there.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:46 am

WelshManJon wrote: 1. Does anyone know the waiting time for city housing in Joensuu.

It depends on your income. The more you're willing to pay, the quicker you'll find something.

2. We are traveling with a dog does anyone know any dog friendly places we can live while we are waiting for city housing.
3. Does anyone have a summer cottage or similar they could rent us cheaply for the period it takes to get city housing.

Best chances are if you're looking slightly outside Joensuu.

We are both in our late 40s. We would both have to look for work once we have arrived.

As Adrian said, the prospects are bleak.

Honestly what are our chances of driving to Joensuu with car packed, dog in car and arriving in Joensuu and surviving.

You'll survive, but if you like it .......

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:52 pm

We would both have to look for work once we have arrived.

So you are planning to survive on eating the dog?

How about finding the job first, as nonexistant it may be, it still makes the plan slightly more feasible.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:55 pm

Joensuu does have 237 jobs, but how many applications are there for that one job is the question...

schneemie · Post by **schneemie** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:03 pm

Finding a job will be the most difficult, closely followed by finding affordable housing.
I moved from Joensuu this spring because I couldn't find a job there - and I speak finnish - and my husband, who is finnish, couldn't find job and we had to move out of student housing and didn't want/couldn't pay the high rents of private housing.
Now we are living in Turku and I still haven't found a job, but my husband has and all is realtively well.

Oombongo · Post by **Oombongo** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:59 am

Obviously you have a job in Scotland, and it is probably safe to assume that your wife has as well.
Why would you axe your career for a move in a small town? Do you have relevant qualifications? Have you checked your prospects, and if your career expertise match with the advertized jobs in that region?

WelshManJon · Post by **WelshManJon** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:21 pm

Thank you all for the replies, I will obviously have to train in a new job there as just being a Forklift driver most my life will not carry much weight, my wife does not work. I am open to suggestions for another place to go to in Finland with better job prospects as comments below has made Joensuu not really a viable prospect for a first place to go to. I am not planning to eat my dog lol she is our baby

I do also understand the work situation is tough but this is the case for most of Europe at this present time and is not likely to get any better but having been with my Finnish wife for 10 years I have fallen in love with Finland, I have no romanticised ideas that I will go there and all will be good, it will be a struggle but as long as we can find accomodation relatively quickly that can accept our dog we can progress from there as we will only have what we can fit in our car and be able to afford to rent a "holiday home" for a short period until one of us gets employment to move to alternative accomodation. My wife has a basic Horticulture and Garden Design qualification I have several IT related qualifications but nothing really strong enough to compete in that field. We would both be willing to do any kind of work including factory work we are not choosy.

Adrian42 · Post by **Adrian42** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:40 pm

WelshManJon wrote:I am open to suggestions for another place to go to in Finland with better job prospects as comments below has made Joensuu not really a viable prospect for a first place to go to.

The Helsinki metropolitan area is the best option.

WelshManJon wrote:I do also understand the work situation is tough but this is the case for most of Europe at this present time and is not likely to get any better

You underestimate the language barrier.
If you move to Finland, you will learn the hard way that you will have to learn Finnish fluently before having any chances of finding a job.

WelshManJon wrote:be able to afford to rent a "holiday home" for a short period

Ignoring the legal question whether you are allowed to live there permanently:
In a Finnish winter it can happen that the temperature stays below -20°C night and day for a few weeks.
A normal summer cottage is not designed to provide acceptable living conditions in winter - the necessary heating and insulation is missing.

WelshManJon wrote:My wife has a basic Horticulture and Garden Design qualification

For 4-6 months of the year, everything in Finland is covered with ice and snow.

WelshManJon wrote:We would both be willing to do any kind of work including factory work we are not choosy.

Finland currently gets flooded with people in their 20s from Southern Europe who say exactly the same (many of them with university degrees).
Most of them go back home after a few months of unsuccessful job search.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:29 pm

I think UK people have this mental handicap in understanding "distance", a bit like the Estonians. No you do not "find a place to live" first. Its like someone finding a nice cottage on outer Hebrides and planning to commute to Glasgow. What would you call such a person? "Southerner"?

Distance - its like the Highlands only stretched out.

WelshManJon · Post by **WelshManJon** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:36 pm

I do understand distances and have no plans to commute to Joensuu or from it, I asked for an alternative as Joensuu reviews were not good. My wife is a Finnish Citizen and as we are part of the EU. I am learning basic Finnish now. Obviously we need to find a home there first as I dont think the car is the best option to sleep in lol. I understand the vast temperature differences between summer and winter. As for work prospects I will work at any job and I am sure with basic Finnish and understanding of it I wont have too much problems with language barriers even sweeping floors for a living as I do know that English is also widely spoken whether or not that is liked. I would imagine Helsinki to be the same as leaving here and hoping to make it in London, out priced and even harder than if I just went to say Bristol although I do appreciate positive input. Most I get is negative but I expected that. All we want to do is pack up our car, head to Stockholm, ferry over and head for the best place to have the best chance of finding a home and work we can always visit Joensuu anytime. Thanks Adrian I assumed all buildings in Finland had insulation to cover winter that is something I just learnt.

Adrian42 · Post by **Adrian42** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:16 pm

WelshManJon wrote:As for work prospects I will work at any job and I am sure with basic Finnish and understanding of it I wont have too much problems with language barriers even sweeping floors for a living as I do know that English is also widely spoken whether or not that is liked.

English is spoken widely, and actually liked by the ones who speak it.
But even many floor sweeping jobs require that you speak Finnish.
And you will compete with many people half your age for very few jobs.

WelshManJon wrote:I would imagine Helsinki to be the same as leaving here and hoping to make it in London, out priced and even harder than if I just went to say Bristol although I do appreciate positive input.

I don't know about the job opportunities in Bristol, but in Finland the Helsinki metropolitan area is your best bet for finding any job.

Most other towns have higher unemployment rates but many anyway have universities full of (foreign) students who are desperately searching for any job for financing their studies - for the average Nepalese student a newspaper delivery job is his number 1 dream.

Adrian42 · Post by **Adrian42** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:37 pm

From today's news:

Unemployment among non-native residents in Finland at the end of July stood at 34.6 percent

Syvänen also noted that in the current weak employment climate, employers might also make assumptions about factors such as foreign citizens’ level of education and suitability for the Finnish workplace.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/immigrant_jobless ... ns/6815742

ajdias · Post by **ajdias** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:15 pm

WelshManJon wrote: I will obviously have to train in a new job there as just being a Forklift driver most my life will not carry much weight,

Actually this may be your best bet. I know of quite a few foreigners working in logistics and talk to them about their work. This is what they tell me:
a)only a few of them go by with English at work... And learning fluent Finnish will take you a few good years.
b)jobs and contracts are very precarious (like if your tasks are done for the day you're expected to check out after 4, 5 or 7 hours, when officially you're on a 8 hour shift. And if you''re difficult and demand your 8 h shift, you won't get any shifts - there's plenty of companies offering 0-x hours /week.)
c)Many of these jobs will be gone in 5-10 years, as automation takes over. It's already happening, but will get worse.

So yeah, you can try your luck. But don't leave your old job behind. There are not many people as bitter as unemployed foreigners, drinking on a Friday night, who believe they have been dealt an unfair hand in Finland (or wronged).

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