Termination of Employment situation

[Upphew]

Hi,

I'm hoping someone can give me some advice about my current situation. I am currently a full-time student, who has been 'made redundant' or let go from my job today.

I have been employed in my current position from January 2012 until today, as an hourly worker (with a contracted minimum of 19,5 hours per week and full-time hours during the summer months) which was amended (at the start of June 2013) by me signing an 'appendix to Employment contract' with the working hours of the employee continuing on a request basis from 1.9.2013.

Today, I was informed that the could no longer offer me any hours due to business reasons. Three other hourly employees are also in the same situation.

I have been informed that I will receive a written reference as well as being paid for my 6 days winter holiday I have accrued and pay for the hours I have done in the current pay period. My collective agreement is 'kaupan ala TES'.

Should I also receive a month's pay in lieu of notice as I have worked for the same employer for more than 1 year? Or does the fact that I no longer have any minimum hours per week, remove this requirement?

Also, as I am also a student, will I be entitled to receive unemployment money from my unemployment fund? (note, I assume I'm not entitled as I am a student and thus not available for full-time employment, but I just want to make sure). I am a Finnish citizen and have been working part-time in Finland for 34 out of the past 48 months.

Thanks in advance.

No answer by quick googling. Union lawyer would probably know...

[betelgeuse]

Thanks for your reply. I also did a google search in Finnish and English and couldn't find an answer.

I emailed the legal advice branch of my university's student union and will see what they say.

The relevant union page has some phone numbers:

http://www.pam.fi/en/Pages/Default.aspx

I don't know if they give advice if you are not a member.

[flyingyellowpig]

Hi there,

I am not sure if you will be able to get anything from your union ( PAM) because you are officially a student and in order to get unemployment benefits you need to be unemployment .
Also for you to receive unemployment benefits you should have worked at list for 40 weeks and have paid tyottomyyskassa and liito which is deducted from your salary usually 2.5 -3 % from your salary .
I don't know how they will calculate it, because you are a student, mostly like you will need the last 10 payslip (palkkalaskelma) , your contract and your palkkatodistus also muutosverokortti.
It may take around 2-3 months for them to make any decisions.
I was working for 7 years on permanent contract for the same company and they took about 2 months to make a decision about my unemployment benefits .

I wish you the best of lucky!!!

[Pursuivant]

A "student" is not "unemployed", as an "unemployed" is sitting on the sofa at home waiting for a job to jump from the window or the kitchen sink and must not do anything else. You can only get the dole if you quit/resign the university. And if you haven't contributed to a fund, you will only get the 'labour market subsidy'. And if you are under 25 and without a degree, you won't get the labour market subsidy.

Shorter version: No.

[Adrian42]

Thanks for your replies. I am over 25 and I have been paying into an unemployment fund for the entire 34 months I have been employed. But what about being entitled to a month's pay in lieu of notice, even though my contract was amended to be on 'a request basis'?

You should ask a lawyer for that.

If you are a member of a union, they likely provide free legal advice.

[Pursuivant]

Yes, the union will find the right paragraph from the book, though as you have been on the 0 hours contract I think thats the one shafting you.

Paying union dies is not a bad idea, if and when you graduate and are no longer a "student" then if your next job craps out, you are an official "unemployed". Though YTK does the same thing more or less, depending on the profession PAM area has the most bizzarre ways to calculate hours and overtimes and whatnot and people get the most screwed so there I'd go for the union. Other areas its a bit of a 50-60 if you are actually just supporting the SDP bigwigs with your donations.

Some unions BTW allow special "student rates" as they know you won't be eligible for compensation.

[CH]

Should I also receive a month's pay in lieu of notice as I have worked for the same employer for more than 1 year? Or does the fact that I no longer have any minimum hours per week, remove this requirement?

I don't think they can remove the notice period. The notice period is what it is, and you get payed for that period. They can say that you don't have to come to work, but that's it. Anyway, as you don't have any minimum hours... yeah... that would be "we don't have any work for you" and salary zero euro for it.

You could perhaps go for wrongful termination, as they terminated your contract right after it went into force. I have no idea if it had any chance, though. Had the other workers also signed the same contract with the same start date?

[ajdias]

It is possible to get unemployment benefits as a student if you can demonstrate that studying is a side activity ("sivutoiminta"). TE will ask for your records of studies and will want to know how much you've been working.
Judging from your description (19,5 hrs. and full time during holidays) your request is likely to be denied, but you still can go by and inquire.

[cors187]

Hi,
My collective agreement is 'kaupan ala TES'.

Im thinking if you call them on a tribunal/court matter, they need to show why you worked for 34 months and then made you sign the 0-120hrs contract.
It could be also estimated that the average monthly hrs you worked before and after signing the 0-120hr contract should be given to you in the 1 months termination period.
By that i mean they should provide you with that average hrs worked(you still work) , not the payout for those hrs.

[Adrian42]

I was referring to the earnings related unemployment benefit and yes, I do receive KELA student benefit.

I was employed by this company for 20 months and I have been employed in Finland for a total of approximately 34 months within the last 4 years.

Unemployment benefits are paid to people who are seeking for a full-time job, and being a full-time student is an exclusion criteria for unemployment benefits (including unemployment funds) - you cannot legally both study full-time and work full-time.

E.g. YTK says:

Is the job-seeker a full-time student? If the studying is full-time, there is no entitlement to unemployment benefit. This also applies to vacation periods of studying.

http://en.ytk.fi/en/benefits_abc/condit ... onditions/

I have been informed by the 'työsuojelu' person that apparently my contract has not 'officially been terminated' and they are just not offering me any hours me any hours at the moment. Yet I was informed that they will most likely NOT offer me any hours ever again. Also I had to return my building access pass and I have been promised a reference, isn't this evidence of termination of employment?

The question still remains in my mind, what happens if they don't offer me any hours ever again? Are they able to allow the contract to remain valid but never offer me any more work and thus get out of paying me severance pay?

The story sounds a bit fishy, but for determining whether or not what the company is doing is legal you don't need the opinions from some random people at the internet - you have to consult a lawyer.

If you can get free advice from a lawyer, then get that.

Otherwise the first consideration will be whether the amount of money you could possibly get will be worth the (financial) effort - I'd guess even 1 month's salary at 19.5 hours/week might only be a three-digit sum after taxes.

[Adrian42]

I was referring to earning related unemployment benefits from my unemployment fund, not to KELA student benefits..

You didn't reply if you were receiving Student benefits during your studies cum part-time job....

Whether or not she is receiving any student benefits is completely irrelevant.

[cors187]

isn't this evidence of termination of employment?

One thing though that seems standard in all collective agreements is for the employer to offer you the shift hrs etc 1 week in advance from the start of the shift week.

http://www.pam.fi/fi/tyo/Taskutessit/Ta ... _netti.pdf
Work schedule
•
Shifts of less than 4 hours shall not be used at the
workplace unless required by a justifiable reason or
requested by the employee.
•
If an adjustment period is used, the employer shall
draw up a working hours adjustment system in
advance, during the use of which the working hours
shall be equalised to a maximum average of 37.5 or
40 hours
•
The adjustment system shall show each week’s
working hours, and employees shall be notified of it
at least one week before it takes effect.
•
The work schedule shall be drawn up for at least
one week at a time and employees given at least one
week’s notice before it takes effect.

So technically,having a current fixed term contract , they need to offer you the ability to check the schedule(even if you get no hrs, your schedule is zero hrs)
Neglect of such cases result in your in-ability to successfully schedule your week in advance so you can continue to meet your needs.

I think this employer offense needs to be in writing first to the employer, and if they continue then its grounds to push for owed hrs on neglected weeks.

So i guess what i am identifying is that it looks like they have reduced your ability to know your work schedule for a still current fixed-term contract.