Resident Permit refused and Passport was taken in custody

[ahmedali]

Hi,

I applied for a resident permit based on employment in last April and got the decision yesterday like ( 5 months and 3 weeks later ) and it was a negative decision, I can to Finland though a normal business schengen visa.

The problem is, the police officer before telling me the decision took my passport and my signature, then told me the decision and that I have to leave Finland in 30 days or I will be deported by force and also that he's not giving me my passport back except at the airport when I've a plane ticket back to Egypt.

The reason for the negative decision was the employment office partial decision, the officer told me that I have the right to appeal but he said as well that it doesn't matter if you appealed, you will have to leave in 30 days.

I don't understand how does this work! shouldn't I stay till I get a decision from the appealing? how come I would have to go back home anyway even if I appealed?

I don't care about the job, I have been waiting for almost 6 months that I gave up and actually applied for 7 courses of a master degree and started studying a month ago and Aalto university gave me a certificate that I have the right to study in the university and I can use the certificates I could get when I pass the courses when I apply for the master degree in the next december and not do the courses again and by that it would be saving time, so it's like open university courses that qualifies me for a master degree.

I don't know what should I do now, should I appeal and attach the university certificate or study right or should I apply for a student residence permit or should I just leave the country and apply from Egypt? anyone has any idea or has any experience related to this situation?

[cors187]

and also that he's not giving me my passport back except at the airport when I've a plane ticket back to Egypt.

http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset ... 040301.pdf

Section 61
Taking temporary possession of travel
documents
(1) The authorities may take temporary
possession of an alien’s travel document
while a matter related to a visa, residence
permit or travel document is being processed
if it is necessary for verifying the correctness
of the alien’s personal data or travel
document or for entering a visa or residence
permit in the travel document.
(2) The travel document shall be
returned to the alien as soon as its possession
by the authorities is no longer necessary for
processing the matter. The alien has the right
to regain possession of the travel document
temporarily for travelling or taking care of
necessary affairs.
(3) Police or border control authorities
issue a certificate of a temporary possession
of a travel document.

Section 187
Not issuing residence permits for employed
persons
An employment office may decide not to
issue residence permits for employed persons
as regards employment for an employer or
contractor who has him or herself or through
his or her representative given the authorities
false or misleading information referred to in
section 186(1)(2). A decision not to issue a
permit is made for a fixed term or until
further notice. A decision may not be made if
a punishment has been imposed for the act.

Chapter 13
Due process
Section 190 (516/2008)
Appeal
A decision of the Finnish Immigration
Service, the police, a border control
authority, an employment office, a Finnish
diplomatic or consular mission or the
Ministry of Education referred to in this Act
may be appealed to an administrative court
as provided in the Administrative Judicial
Procedure Act.

Section 191
Appeal prohibition
(1) The following decisions issued under
this Act are not subject to appeal:
1) decisions on issuing a visa, altering the
validity period for a visa or the number of
days of residence entered in a visa,
cancelling a visa, or disclosing the grounds
for a decision on a visa, unless the matter
concerns an adverse visa decision of a family
member of an EU or Finnish citizen to which
the provisions of Chapter 10 on the right of
an EU citizen and a member of his or her
family to move freely apply; (360/2007)
2) decisions by the Ministry for Foreign
Affairs on issuing a residence permit to or
cancelling a residence permit issued to a
member of the staff of a foreign mission in
Finland or his or her family member;
3) decisions on issuing a residence permit
to an alien admitted to Finland under the
refugee quota;
4) decisions on issuing a residence permit
on the basis of other humanitarian
immigration;
5) decisions on issuing a residence permit
on the basis of temporary protection while
the alien’s application for asylum is still
being processed;
6) repealed by 581/2005
7) decisions stating that the processing of
an application for asylum is dropped under
section 111(2);
8 ) decisions stating that the matter is
dropped because the applicant has cancelled
his or her application or there is reasonable
cause to believe that the applicant has moved
out of Finland;
9) advance information given by an
employment office under section 78;
(619/2006)
10) the decision on the reflection period as
laid down in section 52b and its suspension.
(619/2006)
(2) When hearing an appeal against an
alien’s removal from the country, the court
may, subsection 1(1) notwithstanding, hear,
as appended to the main issue, a decision
concerning a visa included in the decision
appealed

Section 194
Employers’ right of appeal
Employers have the right to appeal against
a decision relating to a residence permit for
an employed person insofar as the appeal
relates to the requirements under section
75(1) decided by employment authorities.

Section 75
Issuing residence permits for employed
persons to persons abroad
The requirements for issuing a residence
permit for an employed person are:
1) Consideration under section 72 has
been given to issuing a residence permit, and
the requirements mentioned in the section are
met, and the requirements for the employer’s
statements and assurance laid down in
section 73(1) are met.

Section 73
Employer’s obligations
(1) An employer shall attach to an
application for a residence permit for an
employed person:
1) written information on principal
terms of work referred to in Chapter 2,
section 4 of the Employment Contracts Act
(55/2001);
2) an assurance that the terms comply
with the provisions in force and the relevant
collective agreement or, if a collective
agreement is not applied, that the terms
correspond to those applied to employees in
the labour market doing similar work; and
3) upon request by an employment
office, a statement confirming that the
employer has met and will meet his or her
obligations as an employer.
(2) An employer shall ensure that an
alien entering his or her service and working
in his or her employment has the required
residence permit for an employed person or
that the alien does not need a residence
permit.
(3) An employer who employs a person
other than an EU citizen or comparable
person or his or her family member, or an
alien residing in the country under a
permanent residence permit shall submit a
statement referred to in subsection 1 to the
employment office without delay, and inform
the shop steward, the elected representative
and the occupational safety and health
representative of the alien’s name and the
applicable collective agreement.
(4) An employer shall keep the
information on the aliens in his or her
employment and on the grounds for their
right to work easily available at the
workplace for inspection by occupational
safety and health authorities, if necessary.

The employer shall store the information on
the termination of the alien’s employment for
four years

Section 195 (973/2007)
Finnish Immigration Service’s right of
appeal
The Finnish Immigration Service has the
right to appeal against a decision of an
administrative court quashing or amending a
decision of the Finnish Immigration Service.

Section 197
Submitting an appeal document
(1) An appeal document shall be
submitted to the authorities who issued the
decision, who shall submit its opinion and
the documents on which it based its decision
to the administrative court without delay.
(2) In asylum matters, an appeal
document may also be submitted to the
Administrative Court of Helsinki or the
police. Immediately after being notified of
the appeal, the Finnish Immigration Service
shall submit the documents on which it based
its decision to the administrative court.
(973/2007)
(3) Abroad, an appeal document may be
submitted to a Finnish mission. A person
held in detention may submit his or her
appeal document to the person in charge of
the detention facilities. The recipient of an
appeal document shall ensure that the appeal
document is submitted without delay to the
authorities who issued the decision. At the
same time, the administrative court shall be
notified of the appeal.

Section 201
Enforcing decisions on refusal of entry
(1) A decision on refusal of entry may
be enforced regardless of appeal, unless
otherwise ordered by an administrative court.
However, a decision of the Finnish
Immigration Service on refusal of entry
concerning an alien who has applied for a
residence permit on the basis of international
or temporary protection may not be enforced
until a final decision has been issued on the
matter, unless otherwise provided in
subsection 2 or 3. (973/2007)
(2) If a decision on refusal of entry has
been issued under section 95b, 103(1)(2) or
103(2)(3), the decision may be enforced after
service on the applicant, unless otherwise
ordered by an administrative court.
(432/2009)
(3) A decision issued under section
103(1)(1) on refusal of entry concerning an
alien who has arrived from a safe country of
asylum, or under section 103(2) on refusal of
entry concerning an alien who has arrived
from a safe country of origin, or a decision
under section 103(2)(2) on refusal of entry
concerning an alien whose application is
considered manifestly unfounded, may be
enforced at the earliest on the eighth day
from service of the decision on the applicant,
unless otherwise ordered by an
administrative court. Before the enforcement,
it shall be ensured that the eight-day period
contains at least five working days.

Section 202
Consent to enforcement
A decision on refusal of entry or
deportation may be enforced before the
decision becomes final if the person refused
entry or ordered to be deported gives, in the
presence of two competent witnesses, his or
her consent to the enforcement of the
decision and signs the corresponding entry
made in the decision.

[cors187]

I don't know what should I do now, should I appeal and attach the university certificate or study right or should I apply for a student residence permit or should I just leave the country and apply from Egypt? anyone has any idea or has any experience related to this situation?

I know one thing,
Applying for work permit and then changing your mind and going to study isnt how finland works, its erratic.
Fins dont suffer erratic added provisions.
I think migri recommends withdrawing a pending application before submitting a new one, but because your a foreigner already in finland , i guess you have only been allowed to stay here because of your employment application.If it was withdrawn , there is no basis for you to stay here over the 90day visa.

[ahmedali]

Thanks a lot for this detailed reply, I know that its not really the best thing to do to apply for a student residence permit, but I don't want to go home now, if I have to, I would, but I wanna take all my chances before I give up, do you know what happens when someone appeals?
would this change the 30 days limit? Would it still be possible to apply for a student residence permit after I had appealed?
What I mean is if I'm going back anyway why don't I take my chances, you know, nothing more nothing less.

[humax]

You can appeal and stay here as you wait for the decision.
I have a friend who was renewing her permit.Initially she had student permit and decided to change into work permit(A).The application was rejected due to the reduced working hours.She reappealed again but still a negative so she stayed here close to 2years without a permit.Fortunately,she was accepted at the university and she decided to reapply as a student this year, They made the decision within 2months and it was positive.

[Oombongo]

I can to Finland though a normal business schengen visa.

This must have something to do with the negative decision and red alarm in immigration department.
Your initial arrival was not on the basis of student or employment visa. It was a schengen visa which is like being a tourist.
So as migrin saw: visitor arrives as a tourist => decides to apply for student visa/employment permit aka a short cut. Hence negative decision.

I can be wrong though but this is how immigration department would have seen it.

[rinso]

Your initial arrival was not on the basis of student or employment visa. It was a schengen visa which is like being a tourist.
So as migrin saw: visitor arrives as a tourist => decides to apply for student visa/employment permit aka a short cut. Hence negative decision.

Coming on a visa and then applying for a RP is a violation of the visa conditions.
It pisses them of and they indeed might go for deportation.
As cors showed, the alien act seems to allow for it.

[cors187]

Thanks a lot for this detailed reply, I know that its not really the best thing to do to apply for a student residence permit, but I don't want to go home now, if I have to, I would, but I wanna take all my chances before I give up, do you know what happens when someone appeals?
would this change the 30 days limit? Would it still be possible to apply for a student residence permit after I had appealed?
What I mean is if I'm going back anyway why don't I take my chances, you know, nothing more nothing less.

Heres the deal , if you and your employer threw a half assed* employment permit together , and if the Employment office rejected it, your appeal is useless, UNLESS MOL.fi made a clerical error,but i doubt it.

If the employment office OK'd your employment contract and migri rejected you then your appeal will probably win, unless migri has some dirt on you, BUT as stated in the Aliens act, Migri has the right to appeal your appeal.
See you later.

[cors187]

You can appeal and stay here as you wait for the decision.
I have a friend who was renewing her permit.Initially she had student permit and decided to change into work permit(A).The application was rejected due to the reduced working hours.She reappealed again but still a negative so she stayed here close to 2years without a permit.Fortunately,she was accepted at the university and she decided to reapply as a student this year, They made the decision within 2months and it was positive.

That story is retarded.

[humax]

@cors187 what does it mean by stating that the story is retarded???? I posted coz I know what happened to my friend and not out of no where.

[cors187]

@cors187 what does it mean by stating that the story is retarded???? I posted coz I know what happened to my friend and not out of no where.

I didnt mean to be completely rude.

have a friend who was renewing her permit.Initially she had student permit and decided to change into work permit(A)(a work permit is neither A or B).The application was rejected due to the reduced working hours(it wasnt a proper job offer).She re appealed again but still a negative so she stayed here close to 2years without a permit(This is the bit that stinks of fish).Fortunately,she was accepted at the university and she decided to reapply as a student this year, They made the decision within 2months and it was positive.

The story is retarded because my understanding of your story info is
Person has study RP
Person gets rejected for employment RP
Person waits for appeal and Looses employment RP
*Somewhere in there the person looses their student RP
Person Stays in finland for 2 years without permit.(did the immigrant really loose the student RP)
Person re applies at own leisure for student RP and gets it in a very fast time, like nothing ever happened, like no one else was inline for student RP.

Its just sounds like one of those fairytale stories that come up all the time here, well not all the time , most stories are how diligent Migri and employment office is on every detail and its hard to change the facts if the facts are not so impressive.