Discrimination

[enkeligod]

Humans are humans and should be treated equally!

Problem is not all humans behave in the same way.
If a significant part of a group behaves "different", the whole group will be associated with it.
The "discrimination" is a response to the unwanted behavior of (part of) the group. Skin colour is an identifier but often not the source of the discrimination.

Your thoughts are so stereotypical that may not reflect reality and this kind of thought is potentially powerful and have negative effects on how people perceive and treat one another that leads to discrimination and racism. Every race or skin colour has positively contributed to some form of changes in our world. We are talking about discrimination in the club here in Finalnd, i have lived , travelled and clubbed in several countries even here in Finland, there are clubs and bars you just do not find foreigners step there foot into even when it is in their neighbourhood due to remarks of discrimination.

Be aware that every one have unwanted behavior irrespective of skin color , i can be drunk and will not misbehave in a club or bar and work home myself and some cannot.

[Karhunkoski]

This sort of "investigation" hits the news every couple of years in Finland and you could get the same result in most countries. The "journalists" know the result before they even start

And still no change in people's attitudes? How about seeing that the world still works on skin colours!

I don't think any normal person would disagree with you. It would be a wonderful world if all types of discrimination were banished forever. However I doubt that is ever going to happen, no matter how hard us "normal" people try. One of the problems being that cases of discrimination are not always black and white, just shades of grey. Add to that the idiots who exploit the term racism, when none has taken place. A I said earlier, "Best thing is to be aware, make street-wise choices and keep safe."

[Honest]

Humans are humans and should be treated equally!

Problem is not all humans behave in the same way.
If a significant part of a group behaves "different", the whole group will be associated with it.
The "discrimination" is a response to the unwanted behavior of (part of) the group. Skin colour is an identifier but often not the source of the discrimination.

That's what exactly causes racism. And that's why we should see everybody independently/individually and not pre-judge people because of their skin colour, ethnic background, religion etc. Generalizing causes racism and descrimination. According to your statement, all Finns can easily be perceived alcoholics or at least potential alcoholics, will that be right? Will Finns accept it as something logical? Same rules should apply for everybody, if we don't use double standards, racism and many other problems would just disappear or reduced greatly.

[Karhunkoski]

According to your statement, all Finns can easily be perceived alcoholics or at least potential alcoholics, will that be right? Will Finns accept it as something logical?

A poor example because they do.....

[rinso]

Your thoughts are so stereotypical that may not reflect reality

Yes, not every person that can be, on his looks, associated with a group behaves like a group member.
But it is the first reaction that many, many people have.
It might even be a rudimentary instinct to fear everything that is different.

and this kind of thought is potentially powerful and have negative effects on how people perceive and treat one another that leads to discrimination and racism.

I think making a big fuss out of minor incidents focuses everybody's attention and that leads to frustration and (negative) critical attitudes.
Crying racism to often doesn't create an open and understanding community.

We are talking about discrimination in the club here in Finalnd, i have lived , travelled and clubbed in several countries even here in Finland, there are clubs and bars you just do not find foreigners step there foot into even when it is in their neighbourhood due to remarks of discrimination.

I once stepped into a bar that proved to be totally black. They told me that I was not wanted because I didn't belong to their target clientèle and I was making the other customers uncomfortable.
I can understand that and I was not troubled about it. According to the present opinions it would have been discrimination, but it was not meant that way. I just didn't belong there.

Be aware that every one have unwanted behavior irrespective of skin color , i can be drunk and will not misbehave in a club or bar and work home myself and some cannot.

Misbehaving people are a big problem for bars and clubs so it is logical they try to filter beforehand.
And I admit the filtering might sometimes have more bias than necessary.

[Upphew]

Humans are humans and should be treated equally!

Problem is not all humans behave in the same way.
If a significant part of a group behaves "different", the whole group will be associated with it.
The "discrimination" is a response to the unwanted behavior of (part of) the group. Skin colour is an identifier but often not the source of the discrimination.

That's what exactly causes racism. And that's why we should see everybody independently/individually and not pre-judge people because of their skin colour, ethnic background, religion etc. Generalizing causes racism and descrimination. According to your statement, all Finns can easily be perceived alcoholics or at least potential alcoholics, will that be right? Will Finns accept it as something logical? Same rules should apply for everybody, if we don't use double standards, racism and many other problems would just disappear or reduced greatly.

If we can't do that to dogs, how on earth we are going to do that to humans... banning dogs by the breed... next you start to put humans to death camps. Or was it other way around?

I approach doberman different way than poodle. Same with people.

[Honest]

I would like to add one more point here, just as in gender discrimination, apparently females are given some advantage over men. If a females says/does something to a man which shows gender discrimination it is not taken as seriously as if a man says/does to a lady. People can argue that it shouldn't be like this it should be the same for both, but practically it's not the same- And there is a reason for that and that reason is history of gender discrimination.

Same thing goes about black and white, people who are arguing that nobody talks about racism from darker people they should try to understand it in the same way as is the case in gender discrimination. We should see things with some context not superficially.

[Liam1]

Honest has a point. It can depend on how things are taken:

I've lost count of the times a Finn cracks a joke that I must eat bacon & eggs/fish n chips/roast beef/have afternoon tea. A scandal broke when a similarly unfunny joke was made about what Tiger Woods would sterotypically eat. Are both examples racism? Was neither? Is joking that Tiger would eat fired chicken offensive and that I eat fried chicken eggs OK?

There was a post here a while ago about I think some ex pats from Asian that had been teased by Teenagers about their accent. I often tease /mimic my wife about how she speaks English does that make me racist? All my family here rip shreds out of me when I attempt Finnish ( I am !"#¤%!) - are they racists?

Recall there was a film just shown on TV original title: "White men can't jump"(can't play basketball). I didn't see this as racist, but I could imagine if there was a role reversal other may get very offended.

However in all of this I wouldn't want to trivialise racism which does exist and needs stamping out. Just it isn't quite as simple so some of the marginal accusations dilute the real problem that should be stamped out.

[cors187]

http://yle.fi/uutiset/yle_uncovers_disc ... es/6885954
Which one is more likely to get hired?

Neither, they have Finnish Education.

[Oberon]

So everyone is busy criticizing the documentary but do you deny that the problem of discrimination exists in Finland?

[AldenG]

Problem is not all humans behave in the same way.
If a significant part of a group behaves "different", the whole group will be associated with it.
The "discrimination" is a response to the unwanted behavior of (part of) the group. Skin colour is an identifier but often not the source of the discrimination.

I think I understand your point now.

You mean that when a significant subset of Finns make crude remarks and unfounded assumptions about people who are different, and cheat them and deny them proper services, it's not surprising that people apply labels like 'racist' and 'provincial' and such to the whole group -- that it's a shame but also natural and only to be expected that the entire population of Finns will be judged by the behavior of the worst ones, especially if the rest of Finns excuse such behavior instead of strongly repudiating it.

Now that you put it that way, it makes a lot of sense.

[Karhunkoski]

So everyone is busy criticizing the documentary but do you deny that the problem of discrimination exists in Finland?

Please try to keep up. Fourth post on this thread:

Discrimination is of course horrible and unfair, but the fact that it exists isn't "news". Did the YLE results honestly come as a shock to anyone on this board? No, of course they didn't.

[cors187]

So everyone is busy criticizing the documentary but do you deny that the problem of discrimination exists in Finland?

Your discriminating against the other posters choice to scoff the subject.

discrimination
dɪˌskrɪmɪˈneɪʃ(ə)n/
noun
noun: discrimination; plural noun: discriminations

1.
the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
"victims of racial discrimination"
synonyms: prejudice, bias, bigotry, intolerance, narrow-mindedness, unfairness, inequity, favouritism, one-sidedness, partisanship; More
sexism, chauvinism, racism, racialism, anti-Semitism, heterosexism, ageism, classism;
positive discrimination, reverse discrimination, ableism;
historicalapartheid
"victims of racial discrimination"
antonyms: impartiality
2.
recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another.
"discrimination between right and wrong"
synonyms: differentiation, distinction, telling the difference

How dare you!

[Oberon]

How have you dealt with racism cases in the school?

No one ever focuses on any good done to help these minorities. Just crap.

Shame on you.

You're white. I'm white. We're lucky to look like Finns.

My son has darker skin because my family has darker skin. I'm the "white" sheep in my family. I have blond hair and blue eyes. My son has my Dad's dark complexion with brown eyes and brown hair.

He's a Finnish kid by every means. I'm the foreigner.

I've never felt anything other than acceptance. My kid's had a horrible time of it in school. Neekeri, black *ss, etc. "Go home where you belong".

Do not say racism does not happen here. It does. I have, many times, consoled a confused boy since he started 1st grade 8 years ago.

As you say, "Finns have the right to act the way they do". What gives them the right to discriminate against one of their own children?

Think before you speak.

[rinso]

I have heard so many times that there is no racism here. If I didn't have a child who was a victim, I probably wouldn't notice it, either. But there is a big problem and just because we don't witness it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

There always are bullies at schools. If you're different you'll become the natural target for them.
Also being a "foreign kid" probably lowers the threshold for bullying.
I admit it is a big problem but it is wider than just racism.

We can't change the behaviour of others but we can change how we deal with others. I'm very proud of how he's dealt with situations he's forced in to.

I think you have done something right in his education.