Discrimination

[Oho]

in the hall of shame.....

[AldenG]

It's called satire. Or even sarcasm. Taking a post that was originally anti-African and turning it 180 degrees to apply the exact same reasoning to Finnish outliers to see if the poster who made that argument still thought it justified mass generalization.

At least you recognized it didn't. Clearly not everyone agrees about that, however.

[Oho]

It's called satire. Or even sarcasm. Taking a post that was originally anti-African and turning it 180 degrees to apply the exact same reasoning to Finnish outliers to see if the poster who made that argument still thought it justified mass generalization.

At least you recognized it didn't. Clearly not everyone agrees about that, however.

My bad, should have read through the entire thread before posting snide remarks....

[onkko]

I suppose the point was that we can make improvements, and we can. No society ever will be perfect but all societies can be made less imperfect. And many or most, or probably all, of the things even pers-suomalaiset take for granted as basic rights these days were initially only strived for by few idealists no doubt labeled as the silly and unrealistic tree huggers of their time.

But thats called colonialism.

[llewellyn]

I suppose the point was that we can make improvements, and we can. No society ever will be perfect but all societies can be made less imperfect. And many or most, or probably all, of the things even pers-suomalaiset take for granted as basic rights these days were initially only strived for by few idealists no doubt labeled as the silly and unrealistic tree huggers of their time.

But thats called colonialism.

Well, I don't think that being a part of Russia really helped here, Sweden certainly in many ways was an important influence though for the most part it hardly was a straightforward colonial relationship - and anyway mostly things have come to fruition during independence and especially after the wars.

[AldenG]

My bad, should have read through the entire thread before posting snide remarks....

I appreciate your saying that when many would not have done so.

[Oho]

Truth be told I saw through yours, it was the response I attacked which seemed like written in earnest.

[browndude]

I think I understand your point now.

You mean that when a significant subset of Finns make crude remarks and unfounded assumptions about people who are different, and cheat them and deny them proper services, it's not surprising that people apply labels like 'racist' and 'provincial' and such to the whole group -- that it's a shame but also natural and only to be expected that the entire population of Finns will be judged by the behavior of the worst ones, especially if the rest of Finns excuse such behavior instead of strongly repudiating it.

Now that you put it that way, it makes a lot of sense.

Spot on Alden! What is worrying is the pervasive universal ethnic Finnish racim that exists in heavy portions from Helsinki all the way up to lapland. Unlike in western europe where racism/discrimination against immigrants and ethnics is more hush hush and subtle, here it is more blatant, open and virulent. I would even venture to say that Finnish racism has more of a Russian or Asian feeling to it then Western. The collective 'kansa' is under a 'siege' from the hord of nee****t that are 'invading' their shores.

Blatant, discriminatory practices that were documented in the program happened in western countries a generation ago, but are now extremely rare because the people have the sense to know (in the case of the doorman) that the police may be called, and paying customers are paying customers, regardless of their background.

Non-european continuous immigration only began in finland at the fall of the soviet union, so in some ways you can make excuses for the sickening and degenerative behaviour of ethnic finnish racism, but in 2013, with the net and cheap to travel to almost everywhere, such virulent racism should be repudiated and put away.

Huh? Sure racism exists in Finland but I certainly have been in countries where its much worse.

[Rick1]

I think I understand your point now.

You mean that when a significant subset of Finns make crude remarks and unfounded assumptions about people who are different, and cheat them and deny them proper services, it's not surprising that people apply labels like 'racist' and 'provincial' and such to the whole group -- that it's a shame but also natural and only to be expected that the entire population of Finns will be judged by the behavior of the worst ones, especially if the rest of Finns excuse such behavior instead of strongly repudiating it.

Now that you put it that way, it makes a lot of sense.

Spot on Alden! What is worrying is the pervasive universal ethnic Finnish racim that exists in heavy portions from Helsinki all the way up to lapland. Unlike in western europe where racism/discrimination against immigrants and ethnics is more hush hush and subtle, here it is more blatant, open and virulent. I would even venture to say that Finnish racism has more of a Russian or Asian feeling to it then Western. The collective 'kansa' is under a 'siege' from the hord of nee****t that are 'invading' their shores.

Blatant, discriminatory practices that were documented in the program happened in western countries a generation ago, but are now extremely rare because the people have the sense to know (in the case of the doorman) that the police may be called, and paying customers are paying customers, regardless of their background.

Non-european continuous immigration only began in finland at the fall of the soviet union, so in some ways you can make excuses for the sickening and degenerative behaviour of ethnic finnish racism, but in 2013, with the net and cheap to travel to almost everywhere, such virulent racism should be repudiated and put away.

Maybe Finns do not want areas like Malmö, cities in France,UK, Germany etc. where natives are not welcome anymore (even police does not go there without extra force) and people feel unsave because of getto forming. Ofcourse that is also the fault of the natives.

[onkko]

I suppose the point was that we can make improvements, and we can. No society ever will be perfect but all societies can be made less imperfect. And many or most, or probably all, of the things even pers-suomalaiset take for granted as basic rights these days were initially only strived for by few idealists no doubt labeled as the silly and unrealistic tree huggers of their time.

But thats called colonialism.

Well, I don't think that being a part of Russia really helped here, Sweden certainly in many ways was an important influence though for the most part it hardly was a straightforward colonial relationship - and anyway mostly things have come to fruition during independence and especially after the wars.

I assume one who made point was foreigner so what he said, if he ment what you think, is colonialism.
By current definition it means "if someone dares to criticize anything in other country". I admit that only applies when one who says is WHM. It could be also racism, just pick word you like.

I think he just went down in "White men has enslaved us and women, when he learns" without understanding that more slaves have went out of finland than in finland and currently we are number 2 in woman equality and historically probably somewhere near that.
Also he forgot that slave trade has also been done extensively by arabs and blacks and that europeans were targets of slave raids also so he projected that to white and because finns are white finns are quilty. Quite odd from someone who opposes racism to blame finns just by skin colour.

[ajdias]

It's not really surprising that many foreigners in this board can't empathize with the groups portrayed in the program: they're often on the other side of the spectrum receiving more admiration and respect than they'd otherwise get if they were native finns. Of course, many people just think they really are that wonderful, instead of looking at it from a more objective viewpoint: it's about the other's perceptions, not you.
This happens to many westerns, but even if you are from a different part of the word and have a different skin tone you may still get it if you are perceived as bringing value to the country and mostly stick to a friendly group that values you.

Btw Alden, that was one of the best post I've read here in a while.

[Oho]

Don't be ridiculous but the poorly managed immigration policies are the problem of the government..

If only, but in reality it is a problem of the common taxpayer who has to foot the bill and gets labeled as a racist on the trot. Government does not give diddly squat, that much is clear.

[Oho]

Obviously it's us who foot the bill but changing policy is the problem of the state elected officials. We can blame the govt officials but it's the voters who make the decision to elect them, so... who're the idiots Taxpayers can moan and *itch and whine about the MP's but the power rests with the voters.

You live under the illusion that Finland is actually a working democracy? This after the prime minister in so many words said that the voters should not expect to be able to influence government policies by voting. The true power does not lie with the voters, just does not, Finland is really not a true civil society, constructs are in place but they amount to almost nothing when the parliament has been reduced to a mere rubber stamp. Finland is the remaining bastion of the Soviet Union, still governed the same way with official party line the only tolerated truth.

[enkeligod]

Obviously it's us who foot the bill but changing policy is the problem of the state elected officials. We can blame the govt officials but it's the voters who make the decision to elect them, so... who're the idiots Taxpayers can moan and *itch and whine about the MP's but the power rests with the voters.

You live under the illusion that Finland is actually a working democracy? This after the prime minister in so many words said that the voters should not expect to be able to influence government policies by voting. The true power does not lie with the voters, just does not, Finland is really not a true civil society, constructs are in place but they amount to almost nothing when the parliament has been reduced to a mere rubber stamp. Finland is the remaining bastion of the Soviet Union, still governed the same way with official party line the only tolerated truth.

What are you saying, is this a communist state from your write-up ?

[Karhunkoski]

We can blame the govt officials but it's the voters who make the decision to elect them, so... who're the idiots Taxpayers can moan and *itch and whine about the MP's but the power rests with the voters.

I'm not taking the same line as Oho. But I don't believe the power rests with the voters at all. We live in a democracy in name only. There is no real difference between the mainstream parties and any viable alternative gets heavily criticised in the MSM, ultimately brainwashing an electorate who is more interested in tosiTV than politics. The whole set-up is a sham....