Corruption related to job in Finland

[Romanian42]

Ofcourse, recommendation is a quick way to hire manpower very easily and quickly.

And with little risk of a wrong decision. That's why it is used.
Why go through an elaborate process if you already have a good candidate?
And remember the best candidate is not always the guy with the best cv.

Hmmm... well

With little risk of a wrong decision .. I wouldn't bet much money on that
recommendations do exist of course and in many cases is just done to help out friends and family
sometimes old school friends or even army friends... but that doesnt mean that while helping
a person to get some salary at some company's expense you are actually taking on a more or less incompetent person.

Of course between two equally incompetent persons you might still prefer the friend.. ( or family )

[rinso]

recommendations do exist of course and in many cases is just done to help out friends and family
sometimes old school friends or even army friends...

So you're willing to give out references that don't reflect the truth just to help a friend and at the same time putting your own business relation at risk?
Most people here don't give references so lighthearted.

[Romanian42]

recommendations do exist of course and in many cases is just done to help out friends and family
sometimes old school friends or even army friends...

So you're willing to give out references that don't reflect the truth just to help a friend and at the same time putting your own business relation at risk?
Most people here don't give references so lighthearted.

Personally I wouldnt do it... and certainly I wouldnt hire a friend in my own business just for the sake of it
but it is quite frequent and I know many cases of people being taken on board that were not exactly that brilliant
you know how things go, especially if there is some connection with people at HR (human resources)
... I am not judging of course...

[Romanian42]

On one thing, the person who started this topic is right though.

While we can certainly agree that some level of friendly recommendation is normal,
the fact that the famous and so much trumpeted language requirements vaporize all of a sudden
....well .. that can be "disturbing".

If someone is formally requested to speak finnish, and that is kind of waived for friends
than this shows some inherent hypocrisy ....

Evidently, in many cases, those "language skill requests" are just some sort of excuse
to weed out people.... and that is not very nice.

[onkko]

On one thing, the person who started this topic is right though.

While we can certainly agree that some level of friendly recommendation is normal,
the fact that the famous and so much trumpeted language requirements vaporize all of a sudden
....well .. that can be "disturbing".

If someone is formally requested to speak finnish, and that is kind of waived for friends
than this shows some inherent hypocrisy ....

Evidently, in many cases, those "language skill requests" are just some sort of excuse
to weed out people.... and that is not very nice.

Depending when it happens. One for russian workgroup who, albeit being main reason to that requirement and hardly worth of trouble but brings some profit, do their job is way better than one italian what no one speaks or no one.
Do you mind to elaborate those "excuse cases", im really interested.

[Romanian42]

Depending when it happens. One for russian workgroup who, albeit being main reason to that requirement and hardly worth of trouble but brings some profit, do their job is way better than one italian what no one speaks or no one.
Do you mind to elaborate those "excuse cases", im really interested.

Well... it is easier to say:

"I don't hire you because you don't speak finnish"

instead of saying

"I don't hire you because you are too negro for my taste"

that's just an example of course....

[onkko]

Depending when it happens. One for russian workgroup who, albeit being main reason to that requirement and hardly worth of trouble but brings some profit, do their job is way better than one italian what no one speaks or no one.
Do you mind to elaborate those "excuse cases", im really interested.

Well... it is easier to say:

"I don't hire you because you don't speak finnish"

instead of saying

"I don't hire you because you are too negro for my taste"

that's just an example of course....

Of course it is, for example i have lost a job because i had Fabio style hair. Your point?
Do you speak finnish and did other speak finnish? Now im not talking about any tests but crude real life spoken language.

[Romanian42]

Of course it is, for example i have lost a job because i had Fabio style hair. Your point?
Do you speak finnish and did other speak finnish? Now im not talking about any tests but crude real life spoken language.

I don't know what your point is.
Don't take it personally... onkko

Anyway to answer your question. I don't speak any finnish at all ...virtually .. apart from "makkara" .. "ilta" and "terve"..
and I have a job as purchasing manager at a major finnish company...
the fact that some of my wife relatives are also involved in the company is purely accidental .


Have a look at some articles on Yle, this one for example :

http://yle.fi/uutiset/what_a_bubble_ive ... nd/6887936

[Pursuivant]

Well... it is easier to say:

"I don't hire you because you don't speak finnish"

instead of saying

"I don't hire you because you are too negro for my taste"

that's just an example of course....

Well if you learn how to speak Finnish, it generally takes 2 years and in that time you learn also "all the things everybody knows (but nobody tells you)" , "how stuff works" , "its not Kansas any more Dorothy" and generally know how Finland is. Its simple as that, the employer does not want to get to conflict because you are a "stupid foreigner" that starts demanding things because they are not "like at home". Someone vouching for you as a "good guy" is much better than trying to scope if you have ever seen indoor plumbing or don't want to take orders from a woman boss or anything else foreign people have issues with.

[Romanian42]

you are a "stupid foreigner"

You ... you .. you ...

I start to have a feeling that in this forum some people takes things too personally.

You are talking about yourself when you say "stupid foreigner" ... right pursuivant ?

I was very simply commenting a statement from the person who started this topic that I think has a point.
And that is the fact that the so called "language requirements" are some kind of cover up for other (sometimes unmentionable) reasons.

That said I think the person who started this topic shouldn't have used the word "corruption"
a better title would have been "the role of recommendations in the job market in finland"
and that is fair enough because there are not so many distortions to be honest
as a matter of fact I think the finnish job market all considered is a relatively open and fair one.

As a side topic .. though it has emerged interestingly .. the "lightness and inconsistency" of the so-called finnish language requirements
that in fact are virtually "non-existent" in the majority of cases and disappear like magic with a friendly word...
it is just a weeding excuse ( pretty lame too).



PS.:
Pursuivant just to know.. but that veeeery large number you are sporting below your nick-name (13.782) is the number of posts you have graced
this forum with ? I mean it is an almighty number of posts ... I was wondering if I am not too curious of course, what kind of job do you have ?

[cors187]

As a side topic .. though it has emerged interestingly .. the "lightness and inconsistency" of the so-called finnish language requirements
that in fact are virtually "non-existent" in the majority of cases and disappear like magic with a friendly word...
it is just a weeding excuse ( pretty lame too).

Ummmm, the contributing factor for requirements to go out the window is money.
If i show everyone that i will make them more money with no hassles, then everybody relaxes their requirements.Easy money

Another close point of relation to " the money" is.

Boss- Hello Wang,thanks for all the effort you put in.
Wang- Hey Boss , i have a friend who will be exactly like me , i will train him, he will be as good as me ,but for less money than me at first.
Boss- Let him enter.

[rinso]

As a side topic .. though it has emerged interestingly .. the "lightness and inconsistency" of the so-called finnish language requirements
that in fact are virtually "non-existent" in the majority of cases and disappear like magic with a friendly word...
it is just a weeding excuse ( pretty lame too).

I believe that in most of the cases Finnish is indeed a logical requirement. The level of fluency however is debatable.
This is the process:
Foreigner, questionable Finnish -> bad impression -> no job
Foreigner, questionable Finnish but with good recommendation -> good impression -> job

And of course the "all the things everybody knows (but nobody tells you)" as Pursuivant said remains (subconscious?) a factor.

PS.:
Pursuivant just to know.. but that veeeery large number you are sporting below your nick-name (13.782) is the number of posts you have graced
this forum with ? I mean it is an almighty number of posts ... I was wondering if I am not too curious of course, what kind of job do you have ?

Pursuivant already posted on this forum even before computers were invented.

[Romanian42]

Boss- Hello Wang,thanks for all the effort you put in.
Wang- Hey Boss , i have a friend who will be exactly like me , i will train him, he will be as good as me ,but for less money than me at first.
Boss- Let him enter.

Exactly Cors,

That is another example of recommendation that is perfectly plausible ..

The "finnish language requirement" has become so over-used and cliché as an excuse to be laughable... at best.
the main challenge when talking about "finnish language requirement" is not to laugh too hard in order not to get caught
and that has becoming difficult, especially to keep a straight face while uttering the words "finnish requirement".
some people resort to biting their lip

I would just add a little note on your example ( the 2 chinese workers ...one recommending the other )
you mention in your example the 1st worker recommending his friend for less money at first for doing the same job .. that is also a "slippery slope" ...
then again each one has to pay his/her own dues but offering to work for less money "chinese style" can have unintended consequences
and start a mechanism of unique bid auction where the winner is the one who asks for the lowest wage
and that is not very good for the market in general.

[cors187]

Wang is on more money that the "starter", starters get starters rates at first.
No slope

[cors187]

Wang is Brittish, i offered a mis-direction