Alimony issue; Lastenvalvoja.....or not?

[knight_travis]

Hello;

I have a small question here, and would greatly appreciate some advice/tips

My husband and I recently divorced.

We have a daughter, who just turned 4

My husband is employed permanently. I am not.

After we parted ways, my daughter of course stayed with me. I moved out of the apartment we both own, and am currently renting an apartment elsewhere.

Just last week, we signed the final divorce papers (avioero-hakemus).

We agreed that I would have sole custody of our kid;

The issue remaining concerns alimony.

My husband is not opposed to it in any way. However, we both prefer to handle the issue ourselves (that is, without any paperwork and/or supervision from the city's Lastenvalvoja)

The problem is : KELA (from who I am currently getting social benefits) insists on seeing some form of paperwork, stating exactly how much my ex-husband is willing to pay monthly

For some reason, KELA seems to be pushing for this.

I can understand the reason, I guess : if my ex-husband pays alimony, then KELA would have to pay LESS in benefits

My question is : can they FORCE the issue? I mean, my husband and I parted ways amicably. We are not enemies, and we resolved everything nicely and A-Okay

We prefer to settle this matter between ourselves. My husband is willing to support our daughter financially, if need be.

Do KELA have the right to INSIST on paperwork regarding alimony payment??

There are other issues involved, as to why my ex and I are handling this ourselves. For example : he now lives alone in the apartment we both own. Despite the fact that we own it 50-50, he is now paying the mortgage alone, because I am renting elsewhere. He could have insisted on me paying my part, but he did not. The apartment is now up for sale; but, until it is sold, my husband is handling all payments by himself. For this reason, I do not want to burden him further with alimony payments (at least, officially)

Every time I go to KELA, they keep pressuring me about alimony payments, and why my ex is not paying anything yet. I keep telling them that : "we have agreed on this ourselves"..........but, apparently, this is beyond their understanding !!

Should I contact the local Lastenvalvoja for advice??

Thanks

[rinso]

Your husband has to pay at least the minimum amount of child care. If he doesn't, you can get it from the municipality and they claim it from him.
Off course, you can make other arrangements but I think Kela is indeed looking for ways to minimize their share.
Make a contract with your husband about what you agreed (signed by both + a witness) and show that to Kela.

[knight_travis]

Thanks, Rinso.

If he doesn't, you can get it from the municipality and they claim it from him.

Meaning : if I get it from the munincipality (meaning KELA), they will harrass my husband for it afterwards?

In other words : the expect this money, one way or another?

Make a contract with your husband about what you agreed (signed by both + a witness) and show that to Kela.

Can we draw up this contract ourselves? Or, do we have to do it in the presence of the City Lastenvalvoja?

[rinso]

If he doesn't, you can get it from the municipality and they claim it from him.

Meaning : if I get it from the munincipality (meaning KELA), they will harrass my husband for it afterwards?
In other words : the expect this money, one way or another?

You can agree on not paying but I suppose Kela will still see it as your (virtual) income and subtract it from your other benefits.

Make a contract with your husband about what you agreed (signed by both + a witness) and show that to Kela.

Can we draw up this contract ourselves? Or, do we have to do it in the presence of the City Lastenvalvoja?

You can do it yourselves but without an expert there might be things that contradict the rules.

[knight_travis]

Hmmm...........ok, thanks for the tips. Much appreciated

[betelgeuse]

Can we draw up this contract ourselves? Or, do we have to do it in the presence of the City Lastenvalvoja?

You can do it yourselves but without an expert there might be things that contradict the rules.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1975/19750704

Unfortunately this act is not translated. Section 8 says: "Elatusavusta tehty sopimus on esitettävä vahvistettavaksi sen kunnan sosiaalilautakunnalle, jossa lapsella on asuinpaikka tai, jos lapsella ei ole Suomessa asuinpaikkaa, sen kunnan sosiaalilautakunnalle, jossa elatusvelvollisella on asuinpaikka. " This means the municipality social board will have to confirm the contract. I don't know how the social board relates to the Lastenvalvoja you mentioned.

[Rip]

(Two threads of the same topic is not good style https://www.finlandforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=81578 )

I assuming here we're talking about payments for the child, as stated in that other thread, payment's to ex-spouse are rare here-

If you apply for that particular KELA support, they will want to see the corresponding money isn't paid by the father, and if it isn't they'll try to extract it from him to the state (and I think they are even more aggressive than usual with other benefits)

From the law quoted above

Lapselle voidaan vahvistaa suoritettavaksi elatusapua, jos vanhempi ei muulla tavoin huolehdi lapsen elatuksesta taikka jos lapsi ei pysyvästi asu vanhempansa luona.

Which seems to mean that having written agreement at all is voluntary. It maybe recommendable for most cases, but if the child is taken care and both parents are satisfied (presumably, the parent that does not live with the child voluntarily pays more than authorities would require) it is not really anybody else's problem.

(Gift tax rules must apply if the money does not go to living expenses but is saved)

[Liam1]

One thing I would advise - get an agreement anyway.

Amicable splits are fine and even can stay amicable, but circumstances change. I've seen such when a couple split and agreed to share parenting 50/50 (and hence costs were moreorless equal, so no need for any official agreements). Worked until Dad found a new wife who objected to time spent with old family. You can guess the rest.

As my old boss always said, contracts are not meant for when you are happy to sign them, but for ten years down the line when you are no longer aligned!

[ajdias]

Amicable splits are fine and even can stay amicable, but circumstances change. I've seen such when a couple split and agreed to share parenting 50/50 (and hence costs were moreorless equal, so no need for any official agreements). Worked until Dad found a new wife who objected to time spent with old family. You can guess the rest.

New wife got dumped?

[knight_travis]

One thing I would advise - get an agreement anyway.

Amicable splits are fine and even can stay amicable, but circumstances change. I've seen such when a couple split and agreed to share parenting 50/50 (and hence costs were moreorless equal, so no need for any official agreements). Worked until Dad found a new wife who objected to time spent with old family. You can guess the rest.

As my old boss always said, contracts are not meant for when you are happy to sign them, but for ten years down the line when you are no longer aligned!

Hmm......wise words.

Thanks, Liam

[sophye]

I suggest as well making an official agreement on everything. If it happens that you start to have disagreements you can then start to live by the rules you created. The easiest way to handle the kela authorities is to make contract they insist. As long as you don't make it a problam they don't really care if the dad pays you or not. They just think that alimony is a payment that you should get and they see it as your income. The minimum payment is now 151,85 euros, next year 153,63 euros.