Am I entitled to study grant or Unemployment benefit ?

sac190 · Post by **sac190** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:02 pm

I have been living in Finland since 2009. I completed my bachelor in 2012 and started my master right after that. Without any gap (except few months of summer). However, I had already started my job from summer. My job made my qualify for work permit. So I changed my status to A (based on work) in 2012. in 2013 I altered my job once as I got better opportunity. I have been working full time for about 1 year on my latest job. I also have extended my work permit second time (valid for 4 years). I also have kela card given to me based on my work. Although, I have been enrolled in master as full time student for about 1.5 year , I only have completed 40 credits. As I wanted to keep Work in my first priority.

A few months ago I applied for study grant, they said I can't get coz I have been studying continuously since I came to Finland. Now a few days ago, I lost my job as the company is out of money. Now I need to know Am I entitled to get any unemployment benefit or any kind of support ?

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betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:39 pm

For a more qualified answer call Kela:

http://www.kela.fi/web/en/phone-services

Interesting that they did not give you student financial aid. The relevant legislation is here:

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1994/19940065

Unfortunately they have not made an English translation. The legislation seems to say that if you are here on the basis of something else than study on a A permit, you would be eligible for student financial aid.

For unemployment support you can read from the Kela site:

http://www.kela.fi/web/en/unemployment

sac190 · Post by **sac190** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:08 pm

Hey, thanks for the reply.

Here is one thing I found "If the employment office considers you a full-time student or a self-employed person, you do not qualify for the allowance."

So I don't know what they consider me. I will contact employment office soon.

Here is the ground I have been granted the right to social security on......

" You have the right to social security in Finland with time 08/08/2012 -
Asuin-/oleskeluvaltio Finland
Reason Working
The law on residence-based social application of the law
Health Insurance Law
Unemployment Security Act"

My contract was done under ERTO...they used to deduct some amount from salary but I have not paid or registered separately for any unemployment fund

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:34 pm

sac190 wrote: Here is one thing I found "If the employment office considers you a full-time student or a self-employed person, you do not qualify for the allowance."

So I don't know what they consider me. I will contact employment office soon.

Yes at least whenever you are eligible for student grants you will not get unemployment money. However, since you did not qualify for that it should change the situation. If you satisfy the requirements for either one of them, I don't think they can deny you both.

sac190 · Post by **sac190** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:01 pm

Hi there,
The unemployment office made me fill the form for registering as unemployed. However, they said they will conduct a questionnaire session with me to know about my master's study situation. I have not completed any credits this academic year and I only have 40 credits so far for the last 1.5 years. I don't know what are they interested to know about my study and how will that affect the decision. Also they said, it will take a month for the decision to come...anyone has any ideas about such situation ?

sac190 · Post by **sac190** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:40 pm

roger_roger wrote:
sac190 wrote:If you can prove that you haven't studied in 1 full year, i.e if you have ECTS before Dec. 19, 2012 then you are eligible for unemployment benefits. If your transcript shows ECTS earned during 2013 (as of now) then you wont get any penny.

I did not take any courses from Second semester of academic year 2012 and 1st semester of academic year 2013. so basically I have not taken any course since january 2013 until now. However, two courses (worth 10 credits) taken before jan 2013 went ongoing and their grades were given in mid 2013. It would work for me even if they refer me for kela's study grant but as i mentioned I have made an appeal for study grant when they rejected me and they said it would take 8 months max to get the decision. hen I called the appeal board and asked if I can get the decision quicker, they said it might come in january 2014 earliest.

So both Kela and unemployment office seem to ignore my case. I am lost between these both. I really can't think of any way out. I am trying to find job but that is going to take time and nobody wants to support me until then.

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:05 pm

roger_roger wrote: This means TE are there only for business.... Sad to see TE are wasting their money in these kind of things. 5400 euros for one candidate just for 6 days training with No guarantee that will enhance his/her skills. That's why this Barona keeps on having crazy lot of IT training vacancies...

TE doesn't mind wasting their money in these things, but when people like you and me get unemployed, they make our life fu.cking hell while dealing with them. I still remember my friend who also had thoughts of committing sucide and depressed dealing with TE, 7 months if fu.cking hell to give him decision, and they were happy to cancel his account within few minutes when he informed them he got job.

It all sounds depressing, but keep hope to look for another job, don't rely on TE, they are there not to help you, they are there to torture you, harass you and at last if you come on top, they just fart and say 5 months waiting period for you.

You are barking on wrong tree here, TE doesnt pay you unemployment , KELA does (even if you are in trade union kela pays huge amount of it and same laws apply. Kela just pays to union and union pays you). And by name Work and Business centers (TE) are for business too. Many of their courses are.... but supported/paid by counties who have to pay if someone is too long unemployed or out of "TE stuff".
And by law KELA/union needs to know if you are unemployed and thats where TE comes in and TE has, with strict laws, decide when you actually are unemployed.
I dont say that its not !"#¤% because it is but thats how laws are made, vote better :/

TE can burn money in front yard and that has nothing to do with if they accept you as unemployed.

Regards been in limbo and helped few friends in limbo. What i can say, dont accept a job if its not full time or go to stydy if its not full time or try business....

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:00 pm

roger_roger wrote:
onkko wrote:You are barking on wrong tree here, TE doesnt pay you unemployment , KELA does (even if you are in trade union kela pays huge amount of it and same laws apply. Kela just pays to union and union pays you). And by name Work and Business centers (TE) are for business too. Many of their courses are.... but supported/paid by counties who have to pay if someone is too long unemployed or out of "TE stuff".
And by law KELA/union needs to know if you are unemployed and thats where TE comes in and TE has, with strict laws, decide when you actually are unemployed.
I dont say that its not !"#¤% because it is but thats how laws are made, vote better :/

TE can burn money in front yard and that has nothing to do with if they accept you as unemployed.

Regards been in limbo and helped few friends in limbo. What i can say, dont accept a job if its not full time or go to stydy if its not full time or try business....
who ever pays the money its TE who decides if they are eligible or not. 7 months just to make a decision didn't sound long enough for you? How do they expect people to survive without job and without income for such a long period?

Instead of wasting resources they can hire few YOUNG talents and increase the amount of workers so they could provide service in time. Their excuse is as always there are lots of people and huge queue. If there is huge queue then employ someone from that queue to share your workload. People will get job, services will run on time. But yes, you are right, Burn the fu.cking money in the yard and spread the poison to your neighbors house.

Its law, TE doesnt just decide. I know they do errors but they are under law. Talents desnt help when you are under sword and where they get those talents? You just cant go and say "talents come here" or increase workers, you have law you have to obey and people who are talented are employed without TE.
And you cant be out of help 7 months, toimeentulotuki kicks in and while it can be cut you arent withouth income.

BTW why someone who is "young talent" would like work in TE center? And from where does that money come where you increase workers in TE centers when its cut.

sac190 · Post by **sac190** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:30 pm

hmm all seems really complicated....... Do you guys have any suggestion on what I should now..... My appeal for study grant is not going to come positive as I have not studied and TE would probably reject as I have those 10 credits that I got in 2013.

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:59 am

Are you legally here and have place of recidence registered? etc etc, theyll check it for you. Atleast i hope but i dont have much hope left....
Then if all other fails you contact social services and nice (or probably not so nice) probably woman probes all of your income and your legal rights to be here and if that checks out they give you enough money to live on.
Search "toimeentulotuki" + city
They will tell you what you are entitled on and because city pays income support they are more than willng to help on goverment support.

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:05 pm

Getting income support is reason to deny your next application or evict you but what i have learned (mom of 3 can live without permission on city paid apartment...) its not probably-
You should have income withouth handouts but while system is fcd up...

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