Plumbing Work - Invoice Dispute

Ice_Man · Post by **Ice_Man** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:55 pm

Hi,

We had some minor plumbing work done as part of our kitchen rennovation and recently received the invoice. It is 'slightly' more than expected! I fear that as the plumber was a friend-of-a-friend, we were a bit careless regarding the initial agreement of the work to be carried out.

Firstly, I would like to know if it is normal practice in Finland to bill for time taking to prepare for the job (visiting the stores to get parts etc)? In total, the guy was on-site for no more than 1hr but is billing 5hrs for total work carried out on the job. If so, should they at least have to provide some evidence of this time spent?

Secondly, he is also charging €3 per km for the distances travelled to get the job done. Again, is this normal? I don't expect my company to cover my transport costs to and from work! Again, no back-up documentation behind this figure. Is that allowed?

Finally, the kitchen tap installed was not the actual product that we ordered. It's a completely different model but made by the same manufacturer. We realized when we came home from work after the plumber had left our home. We attempted to contact the plumber more than once after the installation but heard nothing until a few months later when we received the bill. If we have to pay the best part of €1k for a kitchen tap and plumbing system, I at least expect the product we ordered! Any links to Finnish consumer rights websites (in English or a Finnish) gratefully received.

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Alex.Sm · Post by **Alex.Sm** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:23 pm

Ice_Man wrote:Hi,

We had some minor plumbing work done as part of our kitchen rennovation and recently received the invoice. It is 'slightly' more than expected! I fear that as the plumber was a friend-of-a-friend, we were a bit careless regarding the initial agreement of the work to be carried out.

Firstly, I would like to know if it is normal practice in Finland to bill for time taking to prepare for the job (visiting the stores to get parts etc)? In total, the guy was on-site for no more than 1hr but is billing 5hrs for total work carried out on the job. If so, should they at least have to provide some evidence of this time spent?

Secondly, he is also charging €3 per km for the distances travelled to get the job done. Again, is this normal? I don't expect my company to cover my transport costs to and from work! Again, no back-up documentation behind this figure. Is that allowed?

Finally, the kitchen tap installed was not the actual product that we ordered. It's a completely different model but made by the same manufacturer. We realized when we came home from work after the plumber had left our home. We attempted to contact the plumber more than once after the installation but heard nothing until a few months later when we received the bill. If we have to pay the best part of €1k for a kitchen tap and plumbing system, I at least expect the product we ordered! Any links to Finnish consumer rights websites (in English or a Finnish) gratefully received.

1000 € to change a tap? Are you serious? That's ridiculous! Period!

To replace a tap, will take max 15-20 minutes assuming you have everything ready and I guess the charge will be 1h anyway. But 5h to change that tap that's ridiculous! About charging per km to go to work is also normal but 3€/km is ridiculous! I know about like 0.50 € cents/km not 3€. Basically your friend's friend fuuuuked you big!

I did plumbing and electricity work with my father and I know how to do it and what it means, however I am not certified and I cannot do this work myself therefore also when I made renovation in my apartment I had to hire people to do electricity and plumbing and pretty much they try to fuuuck you unless you tell them to fuuuuck off because you know how this sssshhhhit is done! However I also paid 144€ for 12 minutes work, but I said ok because he came when I wanted (in less than 1h when I called) and he used some products he had so I didn't had to go and buy them. So I was more happy that he came and I agreed.

Having legislation that prevents people to do this kind of work themselves is good and bad in the same time:
- good because prevents you to do some bad work. If you don't know how to do it you might cause some problems to you and neighbors like: flooding or starting some fire.
- bad because you are forced to take somebody that is certified and will charge as much as he wants because he knows that you have to take him anyway. So pretty much all electricians and plumbers they try to rob you!

Did your plumber told you about travel costs, work and so on? Did you agree anything about that? Signed some contract or something like this?

In your case, I will do like this assuming you don't want to change the tap anymore and you are happy with the tap he bought:
- pay him the product (ask for receipt)
- pay him for 1h at the rate you have agreed (so you will be generous here)
- tell him to fuuuuck off

P.S. If he's not happy he can sue you and you handle it in court!

Alex.Sm · Post by **Alex.Sm** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:28 pm

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:59 pm

http://www.kuluttajavirasto.fi/en-GB/co ... r-advisor/

When paying by the hour, visiting stores can be billed. It's also possible that they charge per km but your charge per km sounds high. They should have the route available for you on request. Since it's not the model you requested they should for free install the correct model. Call the number listed in the above link and they are more qualified to give you advice on how to proceed.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:09 pm

Sounds like par for the course

We had similar problems with our plumber during a bathroom renovation. He turned up as and when he felt like it (I had two other guys waiting for him so they could continue with the rest of the work) and even had the nerve to ask one of them if he could borrow some tools - needless to say they both told him where to stick his spanner, they were as pissssed with him as we were.

If I worked as a tax inspector I would look very closely at their accounts... I wonder if they actually declare all those hours, in fact, I wonder if there are even that many hours in a day/week/month if you add it all up together.

Ice_Man · Post by **Ice_Man** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:35 pm

Thanks for your responses guys! I think a call to the Consumer Agency will be the next logical step to find out where exactly we stand legally. In the meantime, we will demand that the plumber comes to replace the tap for the product we actually ordered for no additional expense.

@Alex.sm - foolishly we didn't agree anything in writing with the plumber. The plumber was arranged by the family friend who did the bulk of the renovation (and a very good job too). Lesson to be learnt here, for sure. However, we have kept email records of what we ordered and the follow ups to inform him that it wasn't what was ordered.

Hopefully this doesn't mean that he is justified to charge what he wants though - the costs incurred travelling and visiting stores to get parts seems quite vast in relation to the actual work carried out.

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