Moving to Finland as PhD researcher

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orys
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Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:49 am

Moving to Finland as PhD researcher

Post by orys » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:25 pm

Hello everyone,

I am a recent graduate of Scottish university and I am researching now a possibility for me to move to Turku to continue my studies, as it is one of the not many universities that seem to do some research in the stuff I am interested in. Also, I am really fed up of living in the country that does not have proper winters, as I LOVE winter, so moving to Scandinavia was the idea I was toying in my mind for some time now and therefore if there is realistic opportunity for me to do so, I would really like to go for it.

I am doing quite well in gathering information about procedures and other stuff related to the university side of the things, as my friend just went through the process and got accepted as a paid researcher (and it is mainly him who is encouraging me to do the same) but since he is not there yet, I don't have first hand informations about practicalites related to everyday stuff. So I hope you could spare a few minutes and help me with this, even if the most of my questions will relate to the stuff that is obvious for you.

My friend who got accepted there was offered a paid position with the salary of about 2200... Let assume I will be accepted (i did not applied yet, as I would like to be sure about everything before) and I will be offered similar position. I would then like to ask you if under my circumstances should I consider it at all, or if it is not the best idea.

Question 1: Real costs of living. I saw on this forum a very diversed advice - some say that person can survive on as little as 560 and some say that it is 1500 that you need to have a life on a minimally comfortable level... In both cases the post I found were a bit old, so I would like to ask you what would be the reasonable amount to consider my minimum if I don't have too high expectation - just some small flat for me and my partner (we don't really need much, currently we are living in studio flat and we are managing all right, although we could do with a little more space). From what I understand PhD students can count on some financial assistance when it comes to accomodation so that would probably help. We don't eat too fancy food or go clubbing, we rarely go to the pub or dine outside and in free time we just like to cycle or go camping which, as from what I understand camping laws are very silmilar to Scottish ones allowing you to camp "in the wild", should not be too expensive. From what I see on the internet prices of food and fuel are similar or slightly lower than in Scotland... And if I am right, the heating costs are usually included in the price of the flat, I hope I am right on this (as with my heating bill I currently pay in mild Scottish winter, I dread to think I would have to heat my flat when there is -30 outside) :-) So: in worst scenario: will 2000 euro be enough to keep two people from starving if everything else fails?

Question 2: Earning opportunities. From what I see in that forum the job situation is not encouraging. My partner is an experienced worker in the international logistics environment. She is fluent in Italian and Polish, has very good English, good Russian and some Ukrainian. Sadly none of us speaks any Finnish. Will she have any chance of some better job, or it will be only unskilled jobs for her (and, as I understand its is not easy for the latter as well)?.

As for me, during my studies in UK i was helping myself working as free lance journalist and translator but majority of my income was from driving. I still can do some translations and writing over the web, but I doubt it would be any significant income for me, so I would rather look into the other direction: I have been driving trucks and vans on casual basis or full time during my gap year and holidays. I am originally from the country that has proper winters and I've been driving in Alps and in Norway under winter conditions for my work so I would dare I am a bit better than your average Briton when it comes to snow driving. Would I have a chance to earn some extra pocket money doing casual driving etc.? Are there agencies that supply substitute drivers to transport companies in Finland that could offer an odd day or two of work here and there?

Question 3: So how it is with the language? I know it is the hard language, but according to this: http://i2.wp.com/claritaslux.com/blog/i ... guages.jpg I am already fluent in the only language considered more difficult than Finnish, so I hope will be all right :lol: . I saw in that forum that some say they were able to get some work in Finnish environment after less than a year of learning it, some still struggle after 10 years... Are there intensive courses available, so the one can, say, spent several weeks learning it full time? Is it expensive?

Question 4: I have a certain car of rare make, and I really like it. Apart of that the car is still of significant value (at least at my level of wealth), it has a big sentimental value to me and I would like to keep it. The car, being bought in Scotland, is RHD. It is not the problem for me to drive RHD car in Europe as I was doing it for many years for my work, and from I found the European laws say that I should be able to register it in other EU country when moving there. From what I found on the internet the only two countries who refuese to reguster such cars are Lithuania and Poland, and the Brussels is not very happy of it. Off course not all EU countries accept RHD cars on "free for all" basis and usually it is in a way of granting exceptions for someone who moves to this country to become it's resident from UK or Ireland (or Malta :P). Would that procedure be complicated in Finland (of course I know I would have to change headlights and move rear foglight to the left) and wouldn't be there any other troubles, for example prohibitive insurance prices?

I hope my questions are not too silly and some of you could help me to make my mind and advice if I should consider that move, or just forget it before I waste any more time pursuing an unrealistic idea. Thanks.


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Moving to Finland as PhD researcher

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onkko
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Re: Moving to Finland as PhD researcher

Post by onkko » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:31 pm

1. You are able to live with 2,2k, im not sure about Turku rents but i assume you look something between 400-700/month for single or small 2 room. Financial assistance is mainly for finnish students who can apply student housing what is cheaper and also for government "rent allowance for students". Atleast allowance is for finns only but as far as i know foreign students can apply for cheaper housing. I dont know if you can apply.
And you can camp but you cant stay or live in others land so if you think that as something you can do instead of renting then forget it, also you would freeze to death in winter.
Heating costs are included in most rental agreements excluding "detached house" or some "row houses". If you rent from apartment building then heating is included in 99.99% cases, you pay for electricity and water. Water is either static or static+-usage (they bill static once a month and repay/bill true usage once a year). Electricity is almost always per use, some rare places have static price.

2. Turku has international harbour, cant get better than that in Finland for someone who is fluent in foreign languages. It wont be easy but atleast she/he has really usable skills. About your driving, its been taken over by eastern europeans due salary and costs of driving licences what hit only local drivers (you can buy licence on east europe...) so possible but if you want to get paid proper salary....

3. Hard is in eye of beholder, different it is. I have seen fluent after year and struggling after 20 years. Its all about you and what you do, no intensive course will help and there arent any for employed. Immerse yourself and dont go in expat bubble where you can work with english. Dont care if you talk like tarzan and never, i mean never! tell that you can speak english. Most of finns can speak english and they cant be arsed to speak bad finnish if they know you speak english.

4. Cars are pain in arse, i dont know enough to comment.
Caesare weold Graecum, ond Caelic Finnum

Rip
Posts: 5582
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:08 pm

Re: Moving to Finland as PhD researcher

Post by Rip » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:06 pm

Housing is the biggest individual expense item and there are online sites for checking how much that costs.
anna.g wrote:Most Finns collect berries & mushrooms and store them for the winter, it's a good hobby to pick up. :)
Many perhaps, but most? not at least in urban areas.
You probably already know it, but I will remind you: spiked winter tires are obligatory from Nov. 1st.
Winter tires are, spiked tires are not.

For the OP: what kind of formal qualifications you have for driving? I don't really know the subject but I think I recall that A) more and fancier papers are needed than a few years ago and B) they should follow some "EU standard"

Rosamunda
Posts: 10650
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 12:07 am

Re: Moving to Finland as PhD researcher

Post by Rosamunda » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:30 pm

There are plenty of "classic" British cars in Finland (eg there's a Jaguar owners club and I have a feeling they mix with MG owners etc) - they have an annual meet in Fiskars and I'm pretty sure they have Finnish registered RHD. On the other hand, I guess those cars are not insured all year round. In Finland it is very easy to take your car off the road ie stick it in a garage and pay the reduced rate for the insurance. Quite a lot of folk take their cars off the road in the winter and resort to public transport. Are you sure you need to import the car? If you are a student and only here temporarily it might not be necessary. Check on http://www.tulli.fi/en/finnish_customs/ ... /index.jsp

If you are driving people around then you need some kind of a special trading licence (it's a regulated line of business) eg taxi, minibus if you are freelance. But I have no idea about driving trucks etc. A lot of farmers do driving work in the winter (harbours, snowploughs) so there is a big demand for that kind of supplementary work. Also it's the kind of work that a lot of immigrants get trained up for because (a) they don't necessarily get drunk at weekends and (b) they don't need fluent Finnish. So you see the problem... lots of competition for the work.

Re: your partner. She might have some luck with good Russian and Polish. Russians are the big spenders in the capital region so High Street commerce is very much focused on the Russian consumer. Also SMEs and such do business with Russia and more and more schools are offering Russian classes for students. But obviously not speaking Finnish is a disadvantage.

betelgeuse
Posts: 4566
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Moving to Finland as PhD researcher

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:36 pm

onkko wrote:1. You are able to live with 2,2k, im not sure about Turku rents but i assume you look something between 400-700/month for single or small 2 room. Financial assistance is mainly for finnish students who can apply student housing what is cheaper and also for government "rent allowance for students". Atleast allowance is for finns only but as far as i know foreign students can apply for cheaper housing. I dont know if you can apply.
Student financial aid is possible for some foreign students:

http://www.kela.fi/web/en/financial-aid ... n-students

In his case it could be argued that his primary reason is working due to the paid position. However, the paid position makes this moot because the income will be too much to get any student financial aid:

http://www.kela.fi/web/en/student-s-own-income

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orys
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:49 am

Re: Moving to Finland as PhD researcher

Post by orys » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:45 am

Hi guys!

Thanks for your answers.

Of course I am not thinking about camping instead of getting a flat to live in :) I mentioned it as an example that I don't need much money to spent on my free-time activities (and of course camping is rather a thing that I don't do much in winter :-) )
2. Turku has international harbour, cant get better than that in Finland for someone who is fluent in foreign languages. It wont be easy but atleast she/he has really usable skills. About your driving, its been taken over by eastern europeans due salary and costs of driving licences what hit only local drivers (you can buy licence on east europe...) so possible but if you want to get paid proper salary....
You can just BUY the license? Damn, shame I didn't knew that when I was doing my B and then C back there many years ago... :lol:
Most Finns collect berries & mushrooms and store them for the winter, it's a good hobby to pick up.
My GF will be delighted, she loves to pick mushrooms and she had not too much opportunity to do it here - last summer we were driving to all forrests around Glasgow whole summer looking for some and we found literally two mushrooms, and enough raspberries and blueberries to make 6 muffins :D I am glad to hear that it is much better in Finland on that front.

As for costs - the prices look not so different to Scottish ones... Some things seem to be a bit more expensive, but for example fuel is significantly cheaper... Yet I would be happy to cycle whenever possible, I don't mind snow or a drizzle, the only weather I don't use my bike is strong gales and rains (therefore I haven't been cycling since about October :( ...I hope Turku would be more cycle friendly than Glasgow... :wink: ).

it's very good news about popularity of second hand stores, as the beginnings are always tough and I don't feel like carrying all my cheap Ikea furniture all across Europe...
Rip wrote:For the OP: what kind of formal qualifications you have for driving? I don't really know the subject but I think I recall that A) more and fancier papers are needed than a few years ago and B) they should follow some "EU standard"
Well, I simply have cat. C licence and significant experience driving rigid trucks (mostly in Scottish Highlands which probably have similar road conditions to Scandinavia, i.e. narrow, bendy roads, animals jumping right in front of you etc.) and some airfreight security certificates. There is that Europwide Certificate of Proffessional Competence thing now, it was introduced few years ago, but in UK I can still drive without it on so called "grandparent's right" until this September... This is partially why I am asking about it, as if it is unreal to get casual driving job, I would not bother to do that course as it is not cheap even for me (as experienced guys need just to do a refresher's one)... Do you think that in Finland something more than driving license, CPC and digi tacho cars is needed? It might be, it is a case in France for example...
Are you sure you need to import the car? If you are a student and only here temporarily it might not be necessary.
From what I read It is not necessary only if you are here for few months (and as general EU rule, after max. six monts of being resident of another country, you need to register your car in your new country of residence) From the links provided by yous I can see that it might be longer period for the students, but my British insurance would not cover me for longer stay abroad. It is certainly a matter that I would have to investigate further.

In general, I would like to take my car with me for a) sentimental reasons b) as it would help me to move, as I can carry a lot of stuff that I would not trust to be sent over c) as I really like to have this freedom when going sightseeing. I guess that option with taking the car off the road when not needed might be an option worth considering, but certainly I would rather not get rid of the car totally.

I am not thinking about using my car for hire or reward, or becoming a taxi driver, I am only considering truck driving because I used to do it for many years - full time in the past, casual during my studies - and this is kind of job I still enjoy and it also allows you to see new places, which is good. Also, I could expect that truck driving is still better then, for example, cleaning jobs, so I could take the burden of getting extra work in the beginning to allow my partner to sit tight and learn as much language as it would be possible so she would have better chances when looking for better job.

But the tip about that getting extra job might not be worth the hassle is very important. And that tip about 35% tax... :O)

Thanks you for all your tips and advice, it sounds better than I expected, so I will investigate the matter further (and then, propably, will come back bothering you with more questions you propably heard 100s of times before, for which I ask forgiveness in advance :)
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Upphew
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Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Moving to Finland as PhD researcher

Post by Upphew » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:15 pm

orys wrote:I am not thinking about using my car for hire or reward, or becoming a taxi driver, I am only considering truck driving because I used to do it for many years - full time in the past, casual during my studies - and this is kind of job I still enjoy and it also allows you to see new places, which is good. Also, I could expect that truck driving is still better then, for example, cleaning jobs, so I could take the burden of getting extra work in the beginning to allow my partner to sit tight and learn as much language as it would be possible so she would have better chances when looking for better job.
http://www.trafi.fi/en/road/drivers_competency
So yeah, you can drive (professionally) until 10.9.2014 with your license.
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Rosamunda
Posts: 10650
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 12:07 am

Re: Moving to Finland as PhD researcher

Post by Rosamunda » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:26 pm

Some countries (eg France) have special bilateral tax agreements with Finland for postgrad students. I'm not too clear about your status (eg your nationality and your tax domicile) and I have never read the small print on this because I am not concerned directly, but there have been plenty of discussions about this on http://www.salutfinlande.net/forum/view ... heurs+vero

EDIT: found it but... this particular text ONLY concerns the France-Finland agreement. Other countries do have similar agreements with the Finnish tax authorities so you need to check what the situation is for your country.

8/1972, article 20
En finnois :
20 artikla
Opiskelijat ja opettajat
1. a) Rahamääristä, jotka opiskelija tai harjoittelija, joka asuu tai on asunut sopimusvaltiossa ja
oleskelee toisessa sopimusvaltiossa yksinomaan harjoittaakseen siellä opintoja tai täydentääkseen
koulutustaan, saa elantoaan, opiskeluaan tai koulutustaan varten, ei veroteta tässä toisessa valtiossa.
b) Sama koskee hyvitystä, jonka sanotunlainen opiskelija tai harjoittelija saa henkilökohtaisesta
työstä, jonka hän on tehnyt siinä sopimusvaltiossa, jossa hän harjoittaa opintojaan tai täydentää
koulutustaan, milloin palkkio on ehdottoman välttämätön hänen toimeentulolleen.
2. Luonnollisen henkilön, joka asuu sopimusvaltiossa aloittaessaan oleskelun toisessa
sopimusvaltiossa ja joka oleskelee jälkimmäisessä sopimusvaltiossa ensi sijassa antaakseen opetusta
tai suorittaakseen tieteellistä tutkimustyötä taikka molemmissa näissä tarkoituksissa, tässä opetus- ja
tutkimustoiminnassa tekemistä palveluksista saama tulo on vapaa verosta viimeksi mainitussa
sopimusvaltiossa enintään kahden vuoden ajan luettuna hänen saapumisestaan tähän valtioon.
Tätä määräystä ei sovelleta opetus- ja tutkimustyöstä saatuun tuloon, ellei sanottuja tehtäviä ole
suoritettu yleisen edun hyväksi vaan ensi sijassa erityisen hyödyn saamiseksi yhdelle tai
useammalle määrätylle henkilölle.
The list of tax treaties is here: https://www.vm.fi/vm/en/04_publications ... pedari.pdf

And then you plug the reference number of the tax treaty into here: http://www.finlex.fi/

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orys
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:49 am

Re: Moving to Finland as PhD researcher

Post by orys » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:47 am

Upphew wrote:http://www.trafi.fi/en/road/drivers_competency
So yeah, you can drive (professionally) until 10.9.2014 with your license.
Ah, so it is European standard... I might just do that course anyway, I guess it will be much easier for me to do it in English now just in case, than in Finnish if need arises...
Rosamunda wrote: I'm not too clear about your status (eg your nationality and your tax domicile) (...) so you need to check what the situation is for your country.
Well, I am a resident of Scotland for nearly 8 years now, it might be worth checking. But as it comes to savings, sadly this not applies to me... :ochesey:

Thank yous again!
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priki
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:02 pm
Location: Tampere

Re: Moving to Finland as PhD researcher

Post by priki » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:29 am

^Yeah, you better to do that course now. Right now the valid license holders only need to take a 5 day course to get the qualification, but if you wait until September, it will cost about 8000€ in Finland. :?
http://yle.fi/uutiset/ammattiajokorttie ... on/6536946

Back in 1990s, Turku was quite cycle friendly (at least much more friendly than Tampere now), but I do not know about the current situation.
Here's some information about traffic in Turku: https://www.turku.fi/public/default.asp ... ntentlan=2
The English version of that website is not that good, I could not find e.g. the bike road map from there. You can download it from
"https://www.turku.fi/public/download.as ... 4A34AAA33D}"
It is apparently from year 2007... For some reason I could not get that link to work, you need to copy-paste it. :?


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