Swedish speaking areas in Finland

[gfunho]

4,9% of sweden either spoke or understood finnish and 1,7% meänkieltä. Even if we count overlap its bigger than swedish in finland.

So, according to you, less than 7% of finns understand swedish?

[Rip]

4,9% of sweden either spoke or understood finnish and 1,7% meänkieltä. Even if we count overlap its bigger than swedish in finland.

So, according to you, less than 7% of finns understand swedish?

We had close to 200 years of systematic attempt to weed out the other language in one of the countries, while the other one the neighboring language was for about 60 years the only accepted official language and is still taught to every child in school.

[Upphew]

I:) I am afraid it does not work that easy. one has to put an effort into any language. it is the teacher's responsibility to make sure that the subject in question is interesting for pupils. many things that one learns in school will be happily forgotten and/or never used in the future life. but still I feel sorry for your experience with Swedish.....

Hey! At least we did know that some phrases would be of use as there was a class trip to Stockholm coming up. Sadly we didn't understand their Swedish and they didn't understand us. But English skills were useful. Oh how motivating that experience was. I did study German too for couple of years, but I just couldn't handle all three languages. Maybe knowing English and German would have helped me when learning Swedish, if I had the need to learn it.

[Oho]

To be fair, weren't most of the Swedish-speakers in what is now Finland there centuries before there was a real Finland, while many of the Finns in Sweden (other than the Meankieli speakers) much more recent emigres? Not that the politicians should be sticking their noses in another country's affairs like that, of course.

!"#¤%, Finnish or something of close proximity has been spoken in geographical Finland with pretty good likelihood for thousands of years before Swedes annexed the country and contrary to your believe permanent Finnish speaking settlements have existed in Sweden longer than Swedish speaking settlements in Finland. The official status of Swedish in Finland in reality is almost entirely due country having been ruled and raped by Swedish nobility for over 500 years.

Saying there was no Finland before political state entity is akin to saying there was no Germany before Otto Von Bismarck.

[onkko]

4,9% of sweden either spoke or understood finnish and 1,7% meänkieltä. Even if we count overlap its bigger than swedish in finland.

So, according to you, less than 7% of finns understand swedish?

No, that was about sweden where finnish is bigger than swedish in finland and still its only "recognized minority language".
I would like that for swedish in finland too or if thats not option then mandatory finnish for swedes in sweden.

Somehow sweden manages "language rights" withouth forcing everyone to learn finnish in school or making finnish mandatory for higher education or government jobs.

[Honest]

I think it's more about power and politics rather than any rights.

[gfunho]

4,9% of sweden either spoke or understood finnish and 1,7% meänkieltä. Even if we count overlap its bigger than swedish in finland.

So, according to you, less than 7% of finns understand swedish?

No, that was about sweden where finnish is bigger than swedish in finland and still its only "recognized minority language".
I would like that for swedish in finland too or if thats not option then mandatory finnish for swedes in sweden.

Somehow sweden manages "language rights" withouth forcing everyone to learn finnish in school or making finnish mandatory for higher education or government jobs.

Exactly my point. You claim in your post that in sweden, 4.9% of swedes understand or speak finnish and 1,7 meänkieltä. That means 6.6% of swedes that speak Finnish(ish).

So, if finnish is bigger in sweden than swedish in Finland, it has to be because "according to you", less than 6.6% of finns understand or speak swedish. Is that right?

[Honest]

Exactly my point. You claim in your post that in sweden, 4.9% of swedes understand or speak finnish and 1,7 meänkieltä. That means 6.6% of swedes that speak Finnish(ish).

So, if finnish is bigger in sweden than swedish in Finland, it has to be because "according to you", less than 6.6% of finns understand or speak swedish. Is that right?

You are ignoring the facts and just looking at the numbers. Stop forcing Swedish on Finnish children and after two generations there won't be even 5% Finns who understand Swedish.

Or in other words, force Swedish children to learn Finnish and there will be more than 90% Swedes who would understand Finnish after 2 generations.

So what and where is your point?

[007]

So, according to you, less than 7% of finns understand swedish?

No, that was about sweden where finnish is bigger than swedish in finland and still its only "recognized minority language".
I would like that for swedish in finland too or if thats not option then mandatory finnish for swedes in sweden.

Somehow sweden manages "language rights" withouth forcing everyone to learn finnish in school or making finnish mandatory for higher education or government jobs.


Exactly my point. You claim in your post that in sweden, 4.9% of swedes understand or speak finnish and 1,7 meänkieltä. That means 6.6% of swedes that speak Finnish(ish).

So, if finnish is bigger in sweden than swedish in Finland, it has to be because "according to you", less than 6.6% of finns understand or speak swedish. Is that right?

speak Finnish as mother tongue, speak Swedish as mother tongue. Discussion of yours would be much clearer. However, note that Swedish language in Finland is compulsory whereas Finnish language is not in Swedish. So, to say that less than 7% of Finns speak Swedish is off the mark as Finns do study compulsory Swedish to some extent at school, and some go on learning all the way as it's required to get govt. jobs etc.

ps. quotes went haywire.

[gfunho]

You are ignoring the facts and just looking at the numbers. Stop forcing Swedish on Finnish children and after two generations there won't be even 5% Finns who understand Swedish.

Or in other words, force Swedish children to learn Finnish and there will be more than 90% Swedes who would understand Finnish after 2 generations.

So what and where is your point?

My point is that claiming that Finnish in Sweden is bigger than Swedish in Finland is a !"#¤% claim. Of course if the whole educational policy is changed in both countries the situation could be reversed, but right now, Swedish is a language quite present in Finland (some people have it as a native language, a lot of people understand it from their time studying it and the access to information in swedish is quite possible), while Finnish language in sweden is reduced to some people that speak it as a mother tongue but that still have a perfect command of swedish.

I am not claiming if swedish should be taught in finland or not (I would vote for the yes, but that is only my opinion), but swedish has still some presence in the finnish society, while finnish is "mostly" ignored in sweden.

[Upphew]

My point is that claiming that Finnish in Sweden is bigger than Swedish in Finland is a !"#¤% claim. Of course if the whole educational policy is changed in both countries the situation could be reversed, but right now, Swedish is a language quite present in Finland (some people have it as a native language, a lot of people understand it from their time studying it and the access to information in swedish is quite possible), while Finnish language in sweden is reduced to some people that speak it as a mother tongue but that still have a perfect command of swedish.

Until they get old and start to forget the languages they have learned and are left with Finnish in Swedish elderly home. No habla suomee, sori. And that is a problem which is happening right now and more often.

I am not claiming if swedish should be taught in finland or not (I would vote for the yes, but that is only my opinion), but swedish has still some presence in the finnish society, while finnish is "mostly" ignored in sweden.

And I don't want that teaching of Swedish is stopped either. I just want that it isn't mandatory. Like it wasn't 50 years ago. I haven't heard that there was huge problems finding people to fill the posts that needed Swedish then.

[Rip]

It is strange to use as a justification the fact that the Swedes were so successful in rooting out Finnish as spoken language in Northern Sweden for the current day Swedes in Sweden to ask that Finnish speaking Finns in Finland should now learn Swedish.

[onkko]

No, that was about sweden where finnish is bigger than swedish in finland and still its only "recognized minority language".
I would like that for swedish in finland too or if thats not option then mandatory finnish for swedes in sweden.

Somehow sweden manages "language rights" withouth forcing everyone to learn finnish in school or making finnish mandatory for higher education or government jobs.

Exactly my point. You claim in your post that in sweden, 4.9% of swedes understand or speak finnish and 1,7 meänkieltä. That means 6.6% of swedes that speak Finnish(ish).

So, if finnish is bigger in sweden than swedish in Finland, it has to be because "according to you", less than 6.6% of finns understand or speak swedish. Is that right?

By native percentage yes, way less.
Way more swedes would speak ad understand finnish if we could force it like swedish in finland.

[onkko]

And I don't want that teaching of Swedish is stopped either. I just want that it isn't mandatory. Like it wasn't 50 years ago. I haven't heard that there was huge problems finding people to fill the posts that needed Swedish then.

I dont either, i want freedom to choose what you learn and same in goverment.

[Oho]

.