HOAS aparment leaking incident and got invoice of 7184 euros

[minhthu27891]

Hi,
I am so frustrated right now and really hope to have some suggestions.
I am living with my boyfriend in Hoas's student apartment. In August, 2013 the drain pipe(under kitchen sink and leaking when open the kitchen sink tap) in my apartment was leaking so I informed HOAS about that and they sent someone to fix it for us. The plumber said the next day we could use the pipe so we even waited for more than 24 hours to make sure the problem was solved before opening the tap. However, the pipe kept leaking and we closed the water tap right after that but some water from the pipe went on the floor and we tried to wipe all the water. I emailed HOAS to inform about that and also asked the water on the floor might damage the floor so do we have to pay for that if the floor is damaged in the (far) future. They replied but basically just told us not to use the tap until its fixed.
And for few weeks after that, some people came and removed all the kitchen cabinets and floor and change with new ones and all problems were solved.
Since then we did not receive any information from HOAS about this problem until today (after almost half a year). They said we have to pay 7184 euros for the damage.
We called them and they said because we kept using the water tap and it damaged the floor so it is our responsibilities to pay for it. (WE USE IT BECAUSE THE PLUMBER SAID ONE DAY AFTER HE FIXED WE CAN USE).
And they change all the kitchen cabinets on the floor with new ones even though they were totally in good condition and even the floor were in good condition also, we just worried if water might damage it but they still changed with new one without informing us. And today(14/2) we received the bill of more than 7000 euros and have to pay it before 03/03/2014.
Its too absurd for us since it was not our fault and we are just student, we do not have money to pay for that much money in 20 days. And why they sent invoice half a year after the problem and did not mention that we have to pay before and at least after the case.
We are both foreign students so we are not so clear about the laws here. For sure we will go to their office to talk about this but we would still really appreciate any suggestions from you guys about what we should do in this case. Thank you very much!

[minhthu27891]

According to the agreement, we have to pay if its due to our neglectance or carelessness. However we did not do any thing wrong in this case. They just changed the new floor and cabinets without informing us in advance even none of them was broken. Is there any chance for us not have to pay it and they still let us live here?

[Rip]

So you think you can get somebody make a call on your behalf: http://www.kuluttajavirasto.fi/en-GB/co ... r-advisor/
(only Finnish or Swedish can be used)

[rinso]

I emailed HOAS to inform about that and also asked the water on the floor might damage the floor so do we have to pay for that if the floor is damaged in the (far) future. They replied but basically just told us not to use the tap until its fixed.
And for few weeks after that, some people came and removed all the kitchen cabinets and floor and change with new ones and all problems were solved.

I think this is the critical part.
You mentioned damage to the floor (caused by your actions) so they had right/obligation to respond.
Of course the cupboards had to be removed and probably renewed. (no identical models for the sink cupboard available anymore).
Not warning you beforehand about what would happen (and what it would cost) is unconsidered, but it does not invalidate their claim.
I'm afraid you have to pay up (at least for some of the costs).

[Rip]

You mentioned damage to the floor (caused by your actions)

(at least based on what they say) They did not break the pipe, they asked for repair, started reusing only after it was said it was OK and stopped using it when it came clear it wasn't fixed (properly).
Doing bit Googling HOAS has a history of trying charge for damage that wasn't done by the tenants and over charge as well. They should try to get help (it seems it would be within the scope of the consumer advisory services)

[rinso]

You mentioned damage to the floor (caused by your actions)

(at least based on what they say) They did not break the pipe, they asked for repair, started reusing only after it was said it was OK and stopped using it when it came clear it wasn't fixed (properly).

They were the tenants (as I understood) when the drain started leaking for the first time. No external cause was mentioned. So it seems to me that they are responsible for the first repair action.
It is debatable if the extra damage (replacement of the cupboards) was caused by the improper fix or that it was necessary from the beginning (to allow for a proper repair).
I agree that Hoas is not acting like a good landlord but I'm not convinced that the tenants are in the clear.
But yes, they do need help to limit the damage.

[minhthu27891]

Thank all for the info. But the point is the floor was not damaged by the leaking, I just emailed and asked IN THE FUTURE if it is broken, would I have to pay for that. Then, they just sent people to remove eveything. And if the plumber did not say we could use water after 1 day, we wouldnt have done that. And the kitchen cabinets removal is part of pipe fixing process(if they really needed to remove all the cabinets to fix the pipe), so why do we have to pay for it?

Fault reports concerning the apartment should be submitted by using the Fault Report form on the Hoas website. Fill in the fault report . With the fault report we get accurate and clear information from the tenant to the maintainance company, and we also get the tenant´s admission to access the apartment. Therefore we do not take fault reports by phone or by e-mail.

According to their terms, my email was not supposed as fault report so why they still carried out the repairs without notifying us in advance.
Would they bring us to the court if we do not pay for it, and anyone knows how much it costs to have a lawyer here for this case?
Thanks a million!

[Jukka Aho]

We are both foreign students so we are not so clear about the laws here. For sure we will go to their office to talk about this but we would still really appreciate any suggestions from you guys about what we should do in this case. Thank you very much!

You might want to study The Act on Residential Leases, Chapter 2, Sections 20 — 26. (Or the English translation, but it is unofficial and possibly partially outdated.)

[Rip]

Would they bring us to the court if we do not pay for it, and anyone knows how much it costs to have a lawyer here for this case?
Thanks a million!

I'd certainly recommend trying the lower cost options first. So, do you have a native friend (or sufficiently fluent immigrant) that could contact on your behalf the consumer advisory services?

[rinso]

But the point is the floor was not damaged by the leaking, I just emailed and asked IN THE FUTURE if it is broken, would I have to pay for that.

This is confusing. The question suggest you don't know if there is damage but you want to cover your tracks.
They probably think; "leakage - possible damage - take action".

According to their terms, my email was not supposed as fault report so why they still carried out the repairs without notifying us in advance.

I don't know the exact wording of your email, but from what you said, I can imagine it could be interpreted as as statement to avoid future claims.
(- "stupid foreigners - can not use the forms - lets take action".)

Would they bring us to the court if we do not pay for it, and anyone knows how much it costs to have a lawyer here for this case?

They could hand it over to a collecting agency. Not paying would eventually end up in court (the amount is high enough to make a case).
But a conflict with Hoas could also mean they cancel the rent agreement.

For legal advice also: http://www.asianajajaliitto.fi/en

[Honest]

So sad to hear your story. I hope you will find some kind of help and be able to minimize the damage.

You are trying to base your argument on the point that they changed the floor even if it was not needed.This not a very strong and valid argument. Water leakage on the floor and the resultant moisture can cause mould to grow there so they have to change it as a precautionary measure even if it is visibly alright. In my opinion you should focus on the point that you informed them in time and followed their instructions. They should also take some blame for sending an incompetent plumber.

[inkku]

http://www.hoas.fi/www/hoaswww.nsf/sp3? ... ntent4BD63

[Rip]

http://www.hoas.fi/www/hoaswww.nsf/sp3? ... ntent4BD63

and I'd quite surprised if an insurance company would be willing to pay anything if they had one. No proof that there was actual damage and the second line of defense (of an insurance company) would be that there was no proper element of surprise related to it anyway.

the

The Consumer Disputes Board

could be a cost effective way to avoid courts, and the related advisory services could probably give them useful advice, including the issue of best way of handling the bill (but for the latter one they need someone that make call in Finnish or Swedish).