British parents thinking about retiring to Finland

njmac · Post by **njmac** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:10 pm

Evening all.. or if not all then anyone who's browsing about

I've been living and working in Finland for more than 4 years no, have a decent job and a nice house etc. My parents have recently retired and are missing their grandchildren, who I was nasty enough to take away from them. So they're considering moving to Finland so they can see us all a bit more. In all likelihood they'll keep a rented house in the UK near my brother so they can spend some time there and some time here. Let's be honest, Finnish winter can be fun but a break is good now and again. They both receive modest pensions in the UK and my dad does occasional work for some extra money and to keep active.

I can't find very much information on retiring to Finland on the forum and most of it is from non EU citizens.. and is a few years old. So I'm wondering what my parents should be considering if they move? They'll need to register with the Police for a residence permit and with Kela for health benefits etc (which are fairly similar to the UK). I imagine Kela will also want information on their savings and income from pension to assess if they should receive any additional benefits and to see if they should be entitled to discounts on medicine etc? They'll probably stay with me for a while so they can test whether they like it here before they buy or rent a place of their own.

Does anyone out there have any experience/wisdom/thoughts/general sarcasm on the matter? I don't need input on whether they will like Finland or not. I can give them quite an accurate portrayal of the benefits and challenges and they have visited a few times so they have an idea of what to expect.

cheers
Nj

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interleukin · Post by **interleukin** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:16 pm

Is KELA really going to be happy to register them? Or would they have to get some kind of social security insurance of their own?

njmac · Post by **njmac** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:31 pm

I think whether they arrived without a single cent or with a million €, as EU citizens Kela would be obliged to give them Finnish social security numbers. I don't think they will need private social security insurance. It's the same if a Finn goes to live in the UK. The British social security office will give them a social security ID (called a National Insurance number there) and they will be entitled to everything a native Brit gets. In the UK he/she would then be assessed to see how much savings he/she has, what current earnings he/she has (from any country) and what support he/she may need to live if he/she doesn't have enough savings or earnings.

I don't really expect that my parents will need to ask for any kind of benefits, other than basic healthcare if they need to see a doctor, but it would be good to know. I'll go and speak to Kela of course but i'm posting here on the forum to see if anyone has experience in similar matters or an opinion that may differ from the official line that Kela tells me.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:36 pm

njmac wrote:I think whether they arrived without a single cent or with a million €, as EU citizens Kela would be obliged to give them Finnish social security numbers. I don't think they will need private social security insurance. It's the same if a Finn goes to live in the UK. The British social security office will give them a social security ID (called a National Insurance number there) and they will be entitled to everything a native Brit gets. In the UK he/she would then be assessed to see how much savings he/she has, what current earnings he/she has (from any country) and what support he/she may need to live if he/she doesn't have enough savings or earnings.

There are no social security numbers. The national id number used to be called social security number but that hasn't been the case for many years. The id numbers are given either by the local registration office or the tax authority depending on the circumstances. I will write the rest tomorrow because now it's sleepy time.

njmac · Post by **njmac** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:47 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
njmac wrote:I think whether they arrived without a single cent or with a million €, as EU citizens Kela would be obliged to give them Finnish social security numbers. I don't think they will need private social security insurance. It's the same if a Finn goes to live in the UK. The British social security office will give them a social security ID (called a National Insurance number there) and they will be entitled to everything a native Brit gets. In the UK he/she would then be assessed to see how much savings he/she has, what current earnings he/she has (from any country) and what support he/she may need to live if he/she doesn't have enough savings or earnings.
There are no social security numbers. The national id number used to be called social security number but that hasn't been the case for many years. The id numbers are given either by the local registration office or the tax authority depending on the circumstances. I will write the rest tomorrow because now it's sleepy time.

Sorry, yes. Henkilötunnus. I was using a generic term, which was pointless since I'm asking people in Finland for advice. And you're right, it's not given by Kela. I'm also a bit tired and should have waited until tomorrow to post the question

Jukka Aho · Post by **Jukka Aho** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:50 am

njmac wrote:
betelgeuse wrote:There are no social security numbers. The national id number used to be called social security number but that hasn't been the case for many years. The id numbers are given either by the local registration office or the tax authority depending on the circumstances. I will write the rest tomorrow because now it's sleepy time.
Sorry, yes. Henkilötunnus. I was using a generic term, which was pointless since I'm asking people in Finland for advice. And you're right, it's not given by Kela. I'm also a bit tired and should have waited until tomorrow to post the question :)

Just here to nitpick: the official term in English, as used by the Population Register Centre, is “Personal Identity Code”

DMC · Post by **DMC** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:01 am

njmac wrote:I think whether they arrived without a single cent or with a million €, as EU citizens Kela would be obliged to give them Finnish social security numbers. I don't think they will need private social security insurance

I'm not sure that is true. I thought those rights applied to workers, not the retired.
Take a look at http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/ci ... nt_low.pdf
This says:

Other economically inactive persons (e.g. unemployed, retired, etc.) must also have sufficient resources for themselves and their family not to become a burden on the host EU country’s social assistance system during their residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover.

njmac · Post by **njmac** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:29 am

DMC wrote:
njmac wrote:I think whether they arrived without a single cent or with a million €, as EU citizens Kela would be obliged to give them Finnish social security numbers. I don't think they will need private social security insurance
I'm not sure that is true. I thought those rights applied to workers, not the retired.
Take a look at http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/ci ... nt_low.pdf
This says:
Other economically inactive persons (e.g. unemployed, retired, etc.) must also have sufficient resources for themselves and their family not to become a burden on the host EU country’s social assistance system during their residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover.

Aha. That's very useful, thanks. They will have enough to support themselves financially and they have paid into the state national insurance system their whole lives so I will need to check if that is applicable or if they'd need a private healthcare plan.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:05 pm

njmac wrote:
Other economically inactive persons (e.g. unemployed, retired, etc.) must also have sufficient resources for themselves and their family not to become a burden on the host EU country’s social assistance system during their residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover.
Aha. That's very useful, thanks. They will have enough to support themselves financially and they have paid into the state national insurance system their whole lives so I will need to check if that is applicable or if they'd need a private healthcare plan.

Indeed the free movement of people is not unconditional. The relevant Finnish rules are 1) registering right of residence following the Aliens Act:

http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset ... 040301.pdf

3) if the applicant is an EU citizen referred to in section 158a(1)(2), proof that the applicant has sufficient funds for himself or herself and for his or her family members and, if necessary, proof of health insurance;

However the Finnish social security system is based on residency so as long as they are able to register their right of residence they will eventually get Kela coverage too:

http://www.kela.fi/web/en/moving-to-finland_pensioners

Private health insurance will be needed if there is a time period between when the UK coverage ends and they have successfully entered Kela.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:38 am

The KELA will pay only if the monies from elsewhere fall under s certain threshold. The health care is the question. Otherwise the OAP benefits like bus passes etc. you get automagically at a certain age depending on the municipality.

One thing though the UK is tightening the screws so now a lot of pensioners retired to spain told by the Spanish they need to have a medical insurance get told "pisoff" by the NHS as they're not "habitually resident".

njmac · Post by **njmac** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:11 pm

Thanks everyone, this is all great info and I need to look into it in detail and digest it before I can speak further to my parents.

On a side note they really like the idea of spending part of the winter here and then buggering off when it's too cold. This winter hasn't exactly been a winter wonderland though: there has been more ice than snow. not exactly perfect conditions for retirees

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:29 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
3) if the applicant is an EU citizen referred to in section 158a(1)(2), proof that the applicant has sufficient funds for himself or herself and for his or her family members and, if necessary, proof of health insurance;

They system is in many ways crazy, but in that way too? Giving free health insurance for elderly people would be completely against the stated principle "do not become a burden on
Finland’s social security system". (At the same time we're paying Spain for our grannies there)

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:40 pm

My parents have been up here maybe once a year since 2001 when we moved here with our (then small) children. They never expressed any wish to live here though and I think they doubted my resilience at times. I never forced them to stay here longer than a week at a time. Why?

- Language barrier
- Cost of living... (in the UK over 65s can get a lunch for less than a fiver in almost any garden centre in the country, that's the price of a coffee in Helsinki)
- Lack of things to do (my folks are really active in their local community in the UK)
- Lack of places to go - the countryside here is kind of boring if you're not into hunting, fishing, mushrooms etc. (Mine found the lack of home comforts at the mökki a bit of a challenge)
- Lack of cultural stuff (theatre etc in English, kind of restricted choice. And everywhere is horrendously expensive compared to the UK where everything is practically free once you'e retired)
- Healthcare - not much for free here and in Espoo it isn't even easy to see a GP

Of course, it depends on your parents and what they like to do in their spare time. I'm pretty sure that if I didn't work I wouldn't survive here, summer or winter. I'd go insane. Many of the Brits I have known here have returned to the UK when they retired.

But there's nothing (yet) to stop them buying/renting a mökki and coming up here regularly (except that Finnair just increased their prices into Helsinki) - but I'd strongly suggest they don't burn all their bridges back to the UK (which is what happened to a lot of Brits who retired to Spain). Property prices are rising rapidly in the UK now, so in a worst case scenario if they were to move here and buy a place, they might find it very difficult to move back. Financially speaking, it doesn't sound like a great idea.

MC Deli · Post by **MC Deli** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:37 am

My mum is close to retiring and we talk about options. I am with the last two posters.

If you've lived here a while and had parents over many times then you already know that it is a hard place for "tourists"!

The ideal I would like is to have an easily accessible mökki that would work in summer and be comfortable enough for long weekends in the shoulder seasons, maybe even winter (though that seems hard to come by realistically). Have the holiday home in Finland rather than in Blighty;)

Horses for courses though. The hardest part about emigrating IMHO is leaving friends...

daveba · Post by **daveba** » Tue May 13, 2014 6:05 pm

I go with last few posts. My parents visit us every summer for 3 months or so. If you have enough room in the house then that's ok or like others mentioned having a mökki is also a great option for the whole family. But of course if they prefer a quiet life then maybe you should explore full time options.

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