Banking problems

[lpuerto]

Hi!!!

I have moved to Finland recently... but I have already registered at Poliisi and I already have my henkilötunnus. I am have move here for family reasons, my SO got hired here and I have decided to move.

However, we have been trying to make a joint account together and it has been practically impossible and this bugged me so much, because we do not really understand why?????

I could understand that a bank do not want to open a bank a account just for me... as I do not have any income right now, it seems that I am not interesting for any bank entity.

My SO has had a Nordea's account since she was studying here (four years ago), where she was receiving her paycheck. We asked to add my name to the account and if it was possible to give me a debit card at her expenses. The answer of was not positive since I am not a student nor I have a job here. ¿?

After checking in other banks, such as Danske, about the possibilities to open a bank account. Almost every bank told us that it is not possible for me to have a bank account. Some of them even look at us like if we were tramps. My OS do not have a super salary, but it is well enough to live here and even save.

Finally, we decided to open one in OP, because it was the only one that allows me to have a credit card at my name that is charged in my girlfriend account. They do not allow us to even open a joint account where my girlfriend receive her paycheck and where I was as co-holder or allowed to use.

I really do not know if this is normal, but it feels to me quite unfair or even discriminatory. I know that right now I am not a very lucrative client for a bank, but I think some banking services are quite a right. I would say that in Spain is. Even more, if you need a bank account to perform some online administrative processes and prove your identity online.

I think this will be more complicated if I had finally approved for KELA and I would decide to apply for unemployment allowance. Where would I received the money?

We really understand that they say no if we were asking for a loan or something... Even we quite understand about banks account for me since they are afraid that I am not able to pay the fees. What we are totally puzzled is about the joint account since this is quite a common operation in Spain.

Is this normal, or my local banks are just a morons...?

Thanks for your answers beforehand!

PS/ I think it is something local, since I have talk with nordea customer service and they told me that the decision is local...

[Rip]

All I can say is that the situation seems to have got worse over the past five years or so. At least part of it because of new EU money laundering/antiterrorism rules (and their local interpretations). It of course costs something, but I wonder if you get a local issued ID card (from police) and would the banks were more accommodating after that.

[lpuerto]

The funny thing is, in this document of the Federation of Finnish Financial Services can be read:

Any natural person legally staying in an EEA state is entitled by law to basic banking services on certain conditions. In Finland, basic banking services comprise a current account which can be used for paying bills and receiving payments such as salaries or other benefits. In addition, basic banking services include a card such as a payment card which can be used for withdrawing cash from ATMs and for paying for shopping to the debit of the bank account against verification of sufficient funds.

Basic banking services can be made available if the customer can be reliably identified and if the customer has a justified need for establishing the relationship. If the customer has earlier breached a contract by e.g. overdrawing an account without authorization, the bank may not be able to open an account.

The following, currently valid documents are considered reliable evidence of identity for banking purposes:
1. National passport
The passport must be issued by an authority in the holder’s country of residence or country of stay.

2. Alien’s passport or refugee’s travel document issued by Finnish authority
It may also be necessary to require other evidence, e.g. in cases where an alien’s passport or refugee’s travel document bears a mention to the effect that identification of a foreign national has not been possible at the time the document was issued.

3. Other evidence of identity acceptable as travel document
An identity document issued by national authorities, like the new ID card that is accepted as travel document in the Schengen area. Another requirement is that the authenticity of the document can be reasonably established and the customer can be reliably identified from the document.

So... I do not even should be asked for a Finnish ID or a Henkitölunnus, with my spanish identity card or passport should be enough. Then, the treatment I have receive from those banks seems to me pretty discriminatory.

[betelgeuse]

So... I do not even should be asked for a Finnish ID or a Henkitölunnus, with my spanish identity card or passport should be enough. Then, the treatment I have receive from those banks seems to me pretty discriminatory.

Yes they should give you the legal minimum services. However online banking is not among this set. I would give your local Prisma and S-Bank a try. They are more interested in expanding to new customers and have a little bit different business model any way. The downside is that their online banking is not available in English.

I think this will be more complicated if I had finally approved for KELA and I would decide to apply for unemployment allowance. Where would I received the money?

Kela is required by law to pay the unemployment allowance to any European bank account. Your Spanish will work for this.

[GWolf2012]

S-Pankki opens a bank account only if you have the henkilötunnus, and activate the online services only if you have a Finland issued ID (Id card, passport or driving license)

Nordea can open a bank account with only a foreign passport but the henkilötunnus is still required, after you got a salary for 2/3 months you can ask netbank codes (but only for login inside Nordea site) and after you get a Finland issued ID they can enable your netbank to access external websites (as kela or vero)

[Rip]

The henkilötunnus is probably tied to " a justified need for establishing the relationship". Exceptions are perhaps made if you have enough money that they would be interested in you.

As the online banking services are not, as noted, one the official "basic services", and it seems the banks require a local ID card (or driving licence?) for them, then it is probably best to comply...

Five years ago one could get online codes and debit card from S with henkilötunnus and foreign passport, but things have got more difficult since.

[lpuerto]

Hei!

yeah! some of the things that bugged me more about the Nordics is that sometimes the rules are really up to the office, clerk, or attendant you have in from of... It is very hard to find a written statement about how the things should be.

I have come from Spain, where everything is highly regulated, even excessively... which sometimes is very bad. The officers usually just follow the rules, and nothing more. They do not think to improve the system, and do not try to help you in anyway. Here is the other way around. You can find people that help you a lot, and put from their side to help you, and other that do nothing and give you no reason for deny you things.

Anyway... we still have a lot of problems as europeans to move from one country to another to work or just simply to life... this is not just a Finnish problem, I would say that here is one of the european countries where is easiest to life as a foreigner, is a whole europe problem. We need to transform Europe in the People's Europe, not in the Capital's Europe. It is not fair that money can easily be moved from country to country to evade taxes, but is practically impossible to move from Finland to Ireland to find a job... Besides, that is not competitive.

[betelgeuse]

S-Pankki opens a bank account only if you have the henkilötunnus, and activate the online services only if you have a Finland issued ID (Id card, passport or driving license)

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 0617#L3P17

For activating the online services the law requires them to accept EEA passports and id cards.

[betelgeuse]

S-Pankki opens a bank account only if you have the henkilötunnus, and activate the online services only if you have a Finland issued ID (Id card, passport or driving license)

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 0617#L3P17

For activating the online services the law requires them to accept EEA passports and id cards.

This is also verified by their own policy: http://dokumentit.s-pankki.fi/c/documen ... upId=10140

[Rip]

S-Pankki opens a bank account only if you have the henkilötunnus, and activate the online services only if you have a Finland issued ID (Id card, passport or driving license)

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 0617#L3P17

For activating the online services the law requires them to accept EEA passports and id cards.

Requires them to accept or says they can not accept anything else except those? Is the law about the right customer to get service or about the rights of the system to control information and identify people?

[betelgeuse]

S-Pankki opens a bank account only if you have the henkilötunnus, and activate the online services only if you have a Finland issued ID (Id card, passport or driving license)

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 0617#L3P17

For activating the online services the law requires them to accept EEA passports and id cards.

Requires them to accept or says they can not accept anything else except those? Is the law about the right customer to get service or about the rights of the system to control information and identify people?

In addition to those they can choose to accept driver's licenses (for example I haven't heard any entity not accepting Finnish driver's licenses). This law only deals with strong online identification. The section quoted is about the first time identification for getting access.

[Rip]

Requires them to accept or says they can not accept anything else except those? Is the law about the right customer to get service or about the rights of the system to control information and identify people?

In addition to those they can choose to accept driver's licenses (for example I haven't heard any entity not accepting Finnish driver's licenses). This law only deals with strong online identification. The section quoted is about the first time identification for getting access.

But does the law say they MUST for example accept foreign passports?

[GWolf2012]

S-Pankki opens a bank account only if you have the henkilötunnus, and activate the online services only if you have a Finland issued ID (Id card, passport or driving license)

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 0617#L3P17

For activating the online services the law requires them to accept EEA passports and id cards.

This is also verified by their own policy: http://dokumentit.s-pankki.fi/c/documen ... upId=10140

good luck getting the online services with s-pankki without a finnish passport or a finnish id or a finnish driving license. They also put a printed advice with the three documents at their branch inside Prisma.

You can show them all the rules, but the worker simply will refuse to enable netbank for you.

[SecretCode]

some of the things that bugged me more about the Nordics is that sometimes the rules are really up to the office, clerk, or attendant you have in from of... It is very hard to find a written statement about how the things should be.

Also very true in South Africa, where I used to live .... very differing levels of service from one branch to another even of the same bank. But it also happens in Britain.

[macora]

I opened an account in OP with passport & henkilötunnus. Then I got web banking (at the cost of 2,7 / mo), only with my passport.

Do you have a Finnish income of any kind? If you do not mind me asking. At least that is the reason I keep getting for not opening a bank account, then for not giving me internet banking. One should have enough money to support oneself until one has found a job... but where to put it? Banks in my country of origin want to have foreign customers only with about 80'000 Euro upwards. Thankfully, I could move my mandatory old-age-pension money to that bank, and with the savings it was enough, else I guess I would have my money under my pillow