Finnish Citizenship application and divorcing

HongJiang · Post by **HongJiang** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:09 pm

Dear everybody,

I came to Finland in 2009 as a student, then I met my current wife. We have been married and lived together for exactly 3 years, since first of August 2011 until now.I have had this A-residence permit , and it is validated until 2016. Plus I have 21 months with B-reisidence permit. I passed the YKI testi. So now I am gonna apply for Finnish citizenship. I graduated from Eastern Finland University as a master. Now I am työtön because I chose to learn Finnish language, I just passed the YKI testi in end of April.

My problem is that my wife is gonna move out on August, because she found a boyfriend and want to move out with him to experience. We are now having the colding time of divorcing , it started in June, but we are still living together. I saw some posts here, now I am also scared that the police will cancer my reisidence immediately and put me in the jail.

Help!! Help!! I do not want to be in the jail. Also in order to stay here with my wife, I sacrified all the job opportunities in Spain and China, instead I choose to learn Finnish in order to be close to her. Now my wife is on my side, she is gonna go to the police station with me on Monday to explain. And my wife told me she will also come back before the end of colding time, she told me that is hihly possible, but now she could not stop being with the boyfriend.

So I want to know, if our marriage ends on December or next June, Do I REALLY have to be in the jail, what will happen to me and my citizenship application??

Thanks a lot

**Sponsor:**

GermanInHelsinki · Post by **GermanInHelsinki** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:25 pm

You are of course not put into jail when your wife leaves you.

The requirement for having the shorter time for citizenship is of course that you are still living together with your wife.

You are of course stupid when you believe your wife will come back to you - she filed for divorce and is moving out. She only tells you she might come back so that you are nice to her now, and in December she will get the divorce granted.

You should of couse forget your wife who left you for another man, and find a job in Spain or China.

007 · Post by **007** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:25 pm

HongJiang wrote: So I want to know, if our marriage ends on December or next June, Do I REALLY have to be in the jail, what will happen to me and my citizenship application?? Thanks a lot

Who put 'jail' idea into your head? That's rubbish. Getting a divorce is not a crime, and it does not terminate your 'A' permit given that you have lived here for years. About citizenship, I think it requires 4 years of being married to your wife or 5 years of residence in Finland with 'A' permit. If you meet any of that, no worries. However, there might be a slight hiccup in your citizenship application in case you are divorced and have no jobs etc which provides you a reason to be in Finland with 'A' permit.

Btw, you did a good job by studying Finnish. With B1 level of Finnish, you will find it a lot easier to look for jobs, not necessarily from the field of your expertise but retaining 'A' permit should be your priority now if you wish to stay in Finland.

HongJiang · Post by **HongJiang** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:34 pm

007 wrote:
HongJiang wrote: So I want to know, if our marriage ends on December or next June, Do I REALLY have to be in the jail, what will happen to me and my citizenship application?? Thanks a lot
Who put 'jail' idea into your head? That's rubbish. Getting a divorce is not a crime, and it does not terminate your 'A' permit given that you have lived here for years. About citizenship, I think it requires 4 years of being married to your wife or 5 years of residence in Finland with 'A' permit. If you meet any of that, no worries. However, there might be a slight hiccup in your citizenship application in case you are divorced and have no jobs etc which provides you a reason to be in Finland with 'A' permit.

Btw, you did a good job by studying Finnish. With B1 level of Finnish, you will find it a lot easier to look for jobs, not necessarily from the field of your expertise but retaining 'A' permit should be your priority now if you wish to stay in Finland.

Thanks for ur reply!! Someone told me an Iraq guy who married a finnish girl, then when they were divorced the Iraq guy was in the jail for some days. So I am scard I will suffer the same thing. Because I checked every thing about this, it all said that the police will handle this case by case, for example ,how many years I have stayed in Finland, do I have close tie with Finland or something. But this is tricky, How many years? so How may is many? 10. 20 or 100 years. I do not know !!!

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:19 am

That jail idea is totally wrong, divorcing is not a crime.
And what i understand from finnish permits your permit is valid till end even if situation changes. Getting new permit is different thing but as we are talking about current permit it stays.
As said "living in finland" demand on citizenship will change if you divorce but thats it, you wont be deported or jailed if you divorce.

So from what i understand you have till 2016 to get citizenship or other way to redo your residence permit.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:13 am

007 wrote: Getting a divorce is not a crime, and it does not terminate your 'A' permit given that you have lived here for years.

http://www.migri.fi/moving_to_finland_t ... the_permit

"Your residence permit may be cancelled also if the grounds that you received your residence permit on no longer exist."

So after divorce to be sure about being allowed to stay, one should satisfy another category for residence permit.

007 wrote: About citizenship, I think it requires 4 years of being married to your wife or 5 years of residence in Finland with 'A' permit. If you meet any of that, no worries. However, there might be a slight hiccup in your citizenship application in case you are divorced and have no jobs etc which provides you a reason to be in Finland with 'A' permit.

Your information is not correct for both married and others. The residency rules are here:

http://www.migri.fi/finnish_citizenship ... nce_period

For example you must lived with the spouse for three years but it's possible to just have have married before submitting the application.

007 · Post by **007** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:07 am

betelgeuse wrote:
007 wrote: Getting a divorce is not a crime, and it does not terminate your 'A' permit given that you have lived here for years.
http://www.migri.fi/moving_to_finland_t ... the_permit

"Your residence permit may be cancelled also if the grounds that you received your residence permit on no longer exist."

So after divorce to be sure about being allowed to stay, one should satisfy another category for residence permit.

Well... they say 'may be', so they are not going to cancel the permit as soon as the grounds on which permit was provided change. I remember reading somewhere in migri page that if marriage is a new ie under a year, only then divorce might lead to a permit cancellation. I am sure this explanation is given somewhere in the law book or has been left to the interpretation of the concerned authority (integrity, language, length of stay etc.)

It's also only fair because a foreign spouse will be totally at the mercy of a Finn spouse if he/she holds such a power as to cancel the permit even after they have lived together for years before the spouse gets permanent permit or becomes eligible for citizenship)

007 wrote: About citizenship, I think it requires 4 years of being married to your wife or 5 years of residence in Finland with 'A' permit. If you meet any of that, no worries. However, there might be a slight hiccup in your citizenship application in case you are divorced and have no jobs etc which provides you a reason to be in Finland with 'A' permit.
Your information is not correct for both married and others. The residency rules are here:

http://www.migri.fi/finnish_citizenship ... nce_period

For example you must lived with the spouse for three years but it's possible to just have have married before submitting the application.

I had written what was on the top of my mind, not regurgitating what was there in the webpage as I thought he needed words of support, not legal text. I admit my info is incomplete, however, points I raise are valid. e.g.

*4 years of A permit if you are married to a Finn - In this case, 3 years living together and 1 year from 2 years of B permit*.

Now if the OP is divoriced, won't he face the hiccup in his application because his five years of residence in finland with 3 years with A, and 2 years with B is only for married applicants?

cors187 · Post by **cors187** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:22 am

007 wrote

The law is like the language and the mentality.
It has a foundation that requires mass derogation.

The applicant must meet a minimum set of requirements or find the derogate path.

derogation
dɛrəˈgeɪʃ(ə)n/
noun
noun: derogation; plural noun: derogations

1.
an exemption from or relaxation of a rule or law.

HongJiang · Post by **HongJiang** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:34 am

Thanks for all of you guys reply. Monday , my Swedish-Finnish wife will go to the police station with me, Our marriage will be ended, if it has to be, then it is next summer, in this colding, Am I still married? and if I am, until next summer, I think my marriage time is about 4 years.

I read the immigration page, it shows that it usually take 245 days for them to give the decision, so when they start to consider my status, after 245 days or before that.

And now what I am now, I will have a business trip in July, now I am scared once I left, then they do not let me come back home (home is in Finland) any more.

GermanInHelsinki · Post by **GermanInHelsinki** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:38 pm

It is of course funny to hear that an unemployed person goes on a business trip.

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:22 pm

HongJiang wrote:Thanks for all of you guys reply. Monday , my Swedish-Finnish wife will go to the police station with me, Our marriage will be ended, if it has to be, then it is next summer, in this colding, Am I still married? and if I am, until next summer, I think my marriage time is about 4 years.

I read the immigration page, it shows that it usually take 245 days for them to give the decision, so when they start to consider my status, after 245 days or before that.

And now what I am now, I will have a business trip in July, now I am scared once I left, then they do not let me come back home (home is in Finland) any more.

If you are unemployed you dont have business trips.
You are married till it ends, it takes 6 month cool down period from original apply and if after that other thinks its over then its over.
I am assuming you havent lived separately 2 years or died etc when divorce can be instant.
Goverment will send you a letter that you are divorced.

HongJiang · Post by **HongJiang** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:52 pm

onkko wrote:
HongJiang wrote:Thanks for all of you guys reply. Monday , my Swedish-Finnish wife will go to the police station with me, Our marriage will be ended, if it has to be, then it is next summer, in this colding, Am I still married? and if I am, until next summer, I think my marriage time is about 4 years.

I read the immigration page, it shows that it usually take 245 days for them to give the decision, so when they start to consider my status, after 245 days or before that.

And now what I am now, I will have a business trip in July, now I am scared once I left, then they do not let me come back home (home is in Finland) any more.
If you are unemployed you dont have business trips.
You are married till it ends, it takes 6 month cool down period from original apply and if after that other thinks its over then its over.
I am assuming you havent lived separately 2 years or died etc when divorce can be instant.
Goverment will send you a letter that you are divorced.

Thanks, then if my wife does not think it is over after 6 months, then for example after 6 months she does not do anything and just let it be, what it will happen then?

Well yes currently I am still living with my wife, so the cooling time how do u count, do they count the time my wife moves out, or the time she filed the paper?

HongJiang · Post by **HongJiang** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:53 pm

GermanInHelsinki wrote:It is of course funny to hear that an unemployed person goes on a business trip.

By saying business, it is that there is a finnish boss who wants to do business with Chinese companies, so he need me to be his personal assistant to help him. He will pay everything for me.

HongJiang · Post by **HongJiang** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:19 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
007 wrote: Getting a divorce is not a crime, and it does not terminate your 'A' permit given that you have lived here for years.
http://www.migri.fi/moving_to_finland_t ... the_permit

"Your residence permit may be cancelled also if the grounds that you received your residence permit on no longer exist."

So after divorce to be sure about being allowed to stay, one should satisfy another category for residence permit.

007 wrote: About citizenship, I think it requires 4 years of being married to your wife or 5 years of residence in Finland with 'A' permit. If you meet any of that, no worries. However, there might be a slight hiccup in your citizenship application in case you are divorced and have no jobs etc which provides you a reason to be in Finland with 'A' permit.
Your information is not correct for both married and others. The residency rules are here:

http://www.migri.fi/finnish_citizenship ... nce_period

For example you must lived with the spouse for three years but it's possible to just have have married before submitting the application.

I have been married with my wife for more than 3 years, and we have lived together exactly 3 years. So they are gonna make me as an illegial immigrant, if I am divorced after one year?

HongJiang · Post by **HongJiang** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:24 pm

007 wrote:
betelgeuse wrote:
007 wrote: Getting a divorce is not a crime, and it does not terminate your 'A' permit given that you have lived here for years.
http://www.migri.fi/moving_to_finland_t ... the_permit

"Your residence permit may be cancelled also if the grounds that you received your residence permit on no longer exist."

So after divorce to be sure about being allowed to stay, one should satisfy another category for residence permit.
Well... they say 'may be', so they are not going to cancel the permit as soon as the grounds on which permit was provided change. I remember reading somewhere in migri page that if marriage is a new ie under a year, only then divorce might lead to a permit cancellation. I am sure this explanation is given somewhere in the law book or has been left to the interpretation of the concerned authority (integrity, language, length of stay etc.)

It's also only fair because a foreign spouse will be totally at the mercy of a Finn spouse if he/she holds such a power as to cancel the permit even after they have lived together for years before the spouse gets permanent permit or becomes eligible for citizenship)

007 wrote: About citizenship, I think it requires 4 years of being married to your wife or 5 years of residence in Finland with 'A' permit. If you meet any of that, no worries. However, there might be a slight hiccup in your citizenship application in case you are divorced and have no jobs etc which provides you a reason to be in Finland with 'A' permit.
Your information is not correct for both married and others. The residency rules are here:

http://www.migri.fi/finnish_citizenship ... nce_period

For example you must lived with the spouse for three years but it's possible to just have have married before submitting the application.
I had written what was on the top of my mind, not regurgitating what was there in the webpage as I thought he needed words of support, not legal text. I admit my info is incomplete, however, points I raise are valid. e.g.

*4 years of A permit if you are married to a Finn - In this case, 3 years living together and 1 year from 2 years of B permit*.

Now if the OP is divoriced, won't he face the hiccup in his application because his five years of residence in finland with 3 years with A, and 2 years with B is only for married applicants?

Now I start to worry that Finnish spouse has such power in finland to cancel the foreign's residence permit, no matter how many years being together as long as we do not have PR or Citizenship!!!

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