Getting married in finland.

reachthesky · Post by **reachthesky** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:40 am

Hi there, i am sorry if i put this thread in the wrong section, if so, i will delete and move it.

okay, so here it goes. i have been with my girlfriend for 6 years now(or maybe more haha) and we wanna get married. at the moment she is living in finland(she is finnish) to finish off school, and i am living in the uk(born and bread in the uk) WE are planning on getting married in november . not a big wedding, its just gonna be me and her, were not the kinda people who like big weddings, they're a waste of time and money.

so i am just wondering, to get married in finland, what will i need? Cause they need proof don't they, that were a real couple. i wold be thankful if someone could tell me everything i need.

i know i need that certificate of no impediment , What else?

Also, i will be moving there in Around Feb or march next year, can anyone else also recommend anything for that? like, how will i be able to stay? will i need anything to prove were married? cause once were married i could move there a year later yeah? I Was reading about a course finland has, which i would love to take. they even teach foreiners finnish, which I am dying to nail, finnish lanquage is something i am very serious about and wanna be good at it.

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betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:31 pm

reachthesky wrote: so i am just wondering, to get married in finland, what will i need? Cause they need proof don't they, that were a real couple. i wold be thankful if someone could tell me everything i need.

Finnish law does not put requirements on the length of the relationship. I can find a random person from the street and start the process if they consent (assuming they fill the few requirements like being old enough).

reachthesky wrote: i know i need that certificate of no impediment , What else?

Nothing. http://oikeusministerio.fi/en/index/pub ... minen.html

reachthesky wrote: Also, i will be moving there in Around Feb or march next year, can anyone else also recommend anything for that? like, how will i be able to stay? will i need anything to prove were married? cause once were married i could move there a year later yeah? I Was reading about a course finland has, which i would love to take. they even teach foreiners finnish, which I am dying to nail, finnish lanquage is something i am very serious about and wanna be good at it.

https://www.poliisi.fi/poliisi/home.nsf ... endocument

When you get married it will get recorded to the population information system and the police will see the information from there (you will also get papers for that when you get married). A spouse of a Finnish citizen can stay indefinitely. The state pays for the language courses as long as you are registered as an unemployed jobseeker.

GermanInHelsinki · Post by **GermanInHelsinki** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:57 pm

The unemployed Australian is of course wrong - the spouse of a Finnish citizen already living in Finland cannot go to the police and register as family member of an EU citizen.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:26 pm

The German with a habitually irritating writing style is of course using the "of course" too much. UK citizen does not register as a family member as a EU citizen, but as a EU citizen (nobody claimed otherwise). While I haven't actually found the corresponding paragraph in the law, at least a well established practice seems to be that the income requirement is waived if you're married to a citizen (like it is when a non-EU citizen is applying for residence permit under similar conditions).

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:50 pm

Rip wrote:The German with a habitually irritating writing style is of course using the "of course" too much. UK citizen does not register as a family member as a EU citizen, but as a EU citizen (nobody claimed otherwise). While I haven't actually found the corresponding paragraph in the law, at least a well established practice seems to be that the income requirement is waived if you're married to a citizen (like it is when a non-EU citizen is applying for residence permit under similar conditions).

In case the family does not have sufficient funds here's what I can gather from legislation:

A spouse of a Finn can not use the EU rules to register as a spouse:

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 01#L10P153

"Lukua sovelletaan Suomen kansalaisen perheenjäseneen, jos Suomen kansalainen on käyttänyt vapaan liikkuvuuden direktiivin mukaista liikkumisoikeuttaan asettumalla toiseen jäsenvaltioon ja perheenjäsen tulee Suomeen hänen mukanaan tai seuraa häntä myöhemmin"

In this case they can apply for a residence permit:

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 1#L10P153a

"Unionin kansalaiselle, jonka oleskeluoikeutta ei voida rekisteröidä tai vahvistaa tämän luvun säännösten perusteella, voidaan poikkeuksellisesti myöntää oleskelulupa 4 luvun perusteella."

As a spouse of a Finn the income requirement is waived:

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 0301#L4P50

"Tässä pykälässä tarkoitetun oleskeluluvan myöntäminen ei edellytä, että ulkomaalaisen toimeentulo on turvattu."

So strictly speaking the OP would have to apply for a residence permit if the spouse can't show sufficient funds. However, in practice it doesn't really matter which paper they end up getting since the obligations and rights are the same (costs and delivery times might differ though).

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:50 pm

Just remember the certificate from the UK registry office may not be older than 3 months. Get it properly stamped and notarized. If you're marrying at the Finnish registry office, basically they take "no less than a week" (cooling off period), to research the impediments, and you can have a simple or a bit more elaborate ceremony. If you don't have witnesses they'll shanghai anyone loitering about...

As for registering, just remember your "intention" is to move to Finland permanently. As you obviously will use your gf's address, I think they might take your word for it, but after that you need to inform the registry office when you move, as you live where the computer says where you live, and not at your gas bill

(good point is the info flows to banks etc. so you don't need to inform too many places...)

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:20 pm

betelgeuse wrote: A spouse of a Finn can not use the EU rules to register as a spouse:

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 01#L10P153

"Lukua sovelletaan Suomen kansalaisen perheenjäseneen, jos Suomen kansalainen on käyttänyt vapaan liikkuvuuden direktiivin mukaista liikkumisoikeuttaan asettumalla toiseen jäsenvaltioon ja perheenjäsen tulee Suomeen hänen mukanaan tai seuraa häntä myöhemmin"

Repeating myself. UK citizen does not register as spouse of a EU citizen, but as an EU citizen her/himself. What you're quoting would be relevant regarding a non-eu family member of a Finnish citizen (the whole family moving here). The EU definition of a family member is slightly looser than the national one.

So strictly speaking the OP would have to apply for a residence permit if the spouse can't show sufficient funds.

Technically that is how I read the law too. In practice that is not the impression I have got on this board how the law is actually applied.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:43 am

Rip wrote: Repeating myself. UK citizen does not register as spouse of a EU citizen, but as an EU citizen her/himself.

I started my reply with "In case the family does not have sufficient funds here's what I can gather from legislation:" for a reason. UK citizens can register as EU citizens themselves but then they need sufficient funds:

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 1#L10P158a

My point is that the law allows for two options. The UK citizen has sufficient funds and whether or not there's a spouse is irrelevant or the reasoning I laid out has the followed.

Rip wrote: What you're quoting would be relevant regarding a non-eu family member of a Finnish citizen (the whole family moving here). The EU definition of a family member is slightly looser than the national one.

The quote is not relevant to a non-eu family member. The chapter is titled: "10 luku Euroopan unionin kansalaisen ja häneen rinnastettavan oleskelu".

Rip wrote: Technically that is how I read the law too. In practice that is not the impression I have got on this board how the law is actually applied.

Seems we are in general in agreement then. The one personal experience I have at the police station was that the clerk wasn't fully trained in all the possible corner cases (in this case extending a B student permit with a A permit application due to being a descendant but not knowing originally about that category). I wouldn't be surprised then if the application is not fully in line with the law.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:40 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Rip wrote: Repeating myself. UK citizen does not register as spouse of a EU citizen, but as an EU citizen her/himself.
I started my reply with "In case the family does not have sufficient funds here's what I can gather from legislation:" for a reason. UK citizens can register as EU citizens themselves but then they need sufficient funds:

OK, the justification for registration may vary (and your point of view could in some other case be relevant). What I meant as a "family member registration" is the application for the residence card, what is for the non-EU faimly members only (enough for that, I think)

betelgeuse wrote:
Rip wrote: What you're quoting would be relevant regarding a non-eu family member of a Finnish citizen (the whole family moving here). The EU definition of a family member is slightly looser than the national one.
The quote is not relevant to a non-eu family member. The chapter is titled: "10 luku Euroopan unionin kansalaisen ja häneen rinnastettavan oleskelu".

And guess what the "rinnastettava" is? A family member of a EU citizen. The 153 § states it explicitly at the very beginning
"Tätä lukua sovelletaan unionin kansalaiseen ja häneen rinnastettavaan sekä näiden perheenjäseniin ja muihin omaisiin."
(actually read together, the two are bit illogical combination. The meaning of 153 § is clear on its own right though, as is obvious that lot of the chapter 10 relates to non-eu family members of EU-citizens.).

I was wrong in the sense that I should have written "EU or non-EU family member", though (as the "proper" family members of Finnish citizens are given in practice registration regardless of work or income consideration) the main application area must be for non-EU person that can get a residence card, instead of needing to apply for a residence permit, which they in some cases might not even qualify for.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:28 pm

Rip wrote:
betelgeuse wrote: The quote is not relevant to a non-eu family member. The chapter is titled: "10 luku Euroopan unionin kansalaisen ja häneen rinnastettavan oleskelu".
And guess what the "rinnastettava" is? A family member of a EU citizen. The 153 § states it explicitly at the very beginning
"Tätä lukua sovelletaan unionin kansalaiseen ja häneen rinnastettavaan sekä näiden perheenjäseniin ja muihin omaisiin."
(actually read together, the two are bit illogical combination. The meaning of 153 § is clear on its own right though, as is obvious that lot of the chapter 10 relates to non-eu family members of EU-citizens.).

I did my conclusion based on the definition in the beginning:

"2) unionin kansalaisella ja häneen rinnastettavalla Euroopan unionin (EU) jäsenvaltion sekä Islannin, Liechtensteinin, Norjan ja Sveitsin kansalaista;"

The title of the chapter should probably be improved to include family members. The Aliens Act any way is a maze to navigate and would really benefit from reorganization.

reachthesky · Post by **reachthesky** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:11 pm

just wanna thank everybody for their reply to this. you have been very helpful.

Also , thanks for not telling me to '@#$% off and stay in your own country' which is what most british people would say(!"#¤%) haha :]

hoping somebody would give me a answer here to, how much would it cost to get married? We don't want anything big, just me and her in a registry office. would it cost?

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:27 pm

Registry Office at office hours is free.

reachthesky · Post by **reachthesky** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:22 pm

again, thank you everyone for your help :]

finland is the greatest country, and i can not wait to move out. its a hard country to live, but worth it.

reachthesky · Post by **reachthesky** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:26 pm

also, i really wanna take that finnish lanquage course. is there a way i could do that and make money? i heard someone saying about you can get money from the goverment, and they give you Some work to do as well? i would love that, since i don't just wanna sit on my ass. i have worked all my life, since i was 14. and i just ain't the kinda person who stays. i know i would not get paid for working, but i don't care. i just need that freedom to get out and work.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:03 pm

reachthesky wrote:also, i really wanna take that finnish lanquage course. is there a way i could do that and make money? i heard someone saying about you can get money from the goverment, and they give you Some work to do as well?

When you first become a Finnish resident and are unemployed, an integration plan will be drafted for you. When you take the language courses, that's a full time affair and you will get social security payments while doing it. The goal of the government is to eventually find you a job in either the public or private sectors.

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