buying a used car - 4x4 or 2x4 ?

atroul · Post by **atroul** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:01 pm

hello,
I am about to buy a used car and because I dont know how are the roads here in Turku and generally in southern Finland
during the winter I need some advise.
Are the roads and the highways cleaned from the ice regurarly? Will I have a big problem if I get a 2x4 car?
Thank you

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Honest · Post by **Honest** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:58 pm

With 2X4 you'll have as many problems as other 90+% car users.

Just learn how to drive in winter conditions and enjoy driving

Ligence · Post by **Ligence** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:24 pm

I have a car with always-on AWD, and while in the winter it's nice to know that whatever the conditions it'll get you home, the rest of the year you're lugging around an unnecessarily heavy and complex drivetrain. If you drive sensibly, you shouldn't have any issues with a 2WD car, be it FWD or RWD. FWD tends to be generally better than RWD in adverse conditions, unless the RWD car is equipped with some manner of traction & stability control.

Good winter tires are of utmost importance, though, AWD or not! I have a vivid memory of trying to accelerate from 60 to 80 on an icy road and just spinning all four wheels, thanks to the aged tires.

riku2 · Post by **riku2** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:29 pm

the simple way to decide is look at the other cars on the road. the majority are two wheel drive. it's the winter tires which are important.

it's also worth remembering that while a four wheel drive car speeds up quicker than a two wheel drive car in the winter, when braking the four wheel drive car will take just as long as a two wheel drive car to stop.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:45 pm

riku2 wrote:the simple way to decide is look at the other cars on the road. the majority are two wheel drive. it's the winter tires which are important.

it's also worth remembering that while a four wheel drive car speeds up quicker than a two wheel drive car in the winter, when braking the four wheel drive car will take just as long as a two wheel drive car to stop.

So in a nutshell, it depends how much you like shoveling. A lot? Take the 4wd as it will get you much deeper in to the ditch.

foca · Post by **foca** » Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:37 am

Ligence wrote:I have a car with always-on AWD, and while in the winter it's nice to know that whatever the conditions it'll get you home, the rest of the year you're lugging around an unnecessarily heavy and complex drivetrain. If you drive sensibly, you shouldn't have any issues with a 2WD car, be it FWD or RWD. FWD tends to be generally better than RWD in adverse conditions, unless the RWD car is equipped with some manner of traction & stability .

Most of 4WD in Finland are not permanent 4wd , thus additional drivetrain should not be a problem when it comes to a car's performance . Unfortunately part time 4WD are not that reliable - additional axel drive starts working depending on the road condition (when main drive wheels start slipping ) and in most cases it does not give you much advantage in complicated parking situations. So my advice is - if you live outside city center , do buy a permanent 4WD , if not front driven car will suffice...

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:32 am

foca wrote:So my advice is - if you live outside city center , do buy a permanent 4WD , if not front driven car will suffice...

Agreed, except I don't see any meaningful difference between rwd and fwd. If we are talking about cars made in this millennia. Rwd would mean bmw or mb, so premium brands with premium prices.

aguinness · Post by **aguinness** » Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:01 pm

No need for four wheel drive, have lived well outside of city centres on occasions during 15 years and regularly visited mökki´s in winter too, never had a 4wd and never needed one. As with most things in Finland do as the locals do and the locals don´t need 4x4´s so you don't either, just good quality studded tyres on a front wheel drive car.

AldenG · Post by **AldenG** » Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:32 pm

Upphew, do you never find it helpful to have the heaviest end of the car over the drivewheels? For instance when pulling out of onstreet parking after a snowplow has gone by? Or driving up a hill or driveway on snow?

I notice the difference with my Tacoma even on merely rainy streets or dewy grass.

riku2 · Post by **riku2** » Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:41 pm

I much prefer RWD (BMW 5 series), the front tires steer, the rear tires push the car forward. it goes around corners much better than front wheel drive cars. In the winter the TCS and stability control stop it from spinning around, which would otherwise happen with this kind of car though.

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:05 pm

4wd needed.... I have lived most of my life in rural finland and 4wd is not generally needed. Of course you can @#$% up and then 4wd helps or want to drive where you shouldnt but..... We arent some rural canada

Most of cars are RWD in finland, cheaper. BWD is funnier in ice track.
If you dont plan to live in nowheremäki where you constantly have to drive in 10cm of snow then no, you dont need 4wd. Most of nowheremäkis does have plow service by community so you need to be in "nooneeverheardoutofcivilazionmäki"

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:23 am

The *best* car to drive in winter is an "arsburner" - the engine on the pushing wheels in the rear. Heating is a bit problematic, and you don't get them no more...

Ligence · Post by **Ligence** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:34 pm

onkko wrote:Most of cars are RWD in finland, cheaper. BWD is funnier in ice track.

BWD? Back-wheel-drive?
RWD is generally accepted to mean rear-wheel-drive, you probably meant FWD.

I prefer 2-letter combinations instead;
- first letter specifies engine placement (Front, Mid, Rear)
- second letter specifies drivetrain (Front, Rear, All)

Pursuivant wrote:The *best* car to drive in winter is an "arsburner" - the engine on the pushing wheels in the rear. Heating is a bit problematic, and you don't get them no more...

The second-best perhaps, after a nice rear-biased AWD

As you say, RR is probably better than the most common FF and FR in terms of performance, no idea whether MR would be better still. I did try to convince myself a few years ago that a Toyota MR2 would work in the winter...However, the problem with those less common layouts is that most people are only used to FF. Driving a MR/RR car in slippery conditions requires either experience and/or caution.

If the readers feel up for it, there's a bunch of 911s (RR) and Boxsters (MR) on Nettiauto.com looking for a new home...

atroul · Post by **atroul** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:11 pm

If the readers feel up for it, there's a bunch of 911s (RR) and Boxsters (MR) on Nettiauto.com looking for a new home...

Lol! I wish I had the budget for these types of cars

My budget is no more than 8000 euros

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:50 pm

AldenG wrote:Upphew, do you never find it helpful to have the heaviest end of the car over the drivewheels? For instance when pulling out of onstreet parking after a snowplow has gone by? Or driving up a hill or driveway on snow?

The times that I haven't been able to get out from parking were the times my fellow FWD pilots were shoveling too. Hills, driveways... never been a problem. Traction controls work wonders nowadays and I have a habit of using good tyres.

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