Trouble in working life in Finland-A need for your opinion

chiilii · Post by **chiilii** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:32 am

Hi there,
I am a foreigner who has been living in Finland for about 7 years and graduated from a Finnish university. Recently, I got a training place-työkokeilu in a small cafeteria in order to improve my finnish skills. The owners are finns and they treated me quite well. I would really like to work for them as long as I can and they have given good feedback about my work. My contract continues until the end of April. While working, I always keep in mind disciplines, self-respect, faithfulness, punctuality, etc.

The problem here is the safety shoes that they demanded me to buy (since I work mostly in the kitchen, dealing with knives, hot soup or water, etc.). Before starting the training, they wanted me to buy the shoes but I refused due to my difficult financial situation. Then they gave me a pair of used safety shoes. Now after over a month, those shoes are in such a bad condition that it's impossible to use them anymore. The shoes were so broken that they no longer provided the necessary protection. And they really pushed me to buy the new pair of safety shoes by myself by letting me use the shoes without half of the shoes' bottom for a day (I need to move a lot at work). After consulting with the local TE-office (unemployment office), I quit the training since I couldn't work in the next day without the safety shoes and the owners absolutely would not purchase them for me. Then they got upset and started to talk bad things about me at least in their Facebook and I'm sure that's not all.

I would like to ask if anyone has knowledge about the issue that who was wrong in this case. Did they violate the Finnish employment law according to Työsuojelulaki/Henkilönsuojainten, apuvälineiden ja muiden laitteiden varaaminen käyttöön (http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 0738#L2P15)? Did they do that because I am a foreigner who is so in need for a job? Or am I supposed to own a pair of safety shoes myself?

At the moment, I feel depressed and disappointed. Everywhere Finns are said to be kind, honest and so on, but why did this happen to me? I worked for them free of charge and still they appreciate 70-100€ for a pair of shoes more than my work there.

Thanks in advance.

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rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:43 am

Some safety gear should be supplied by the employer (i.e. metal gloves for opening oysters) but safety shoes are not one of them.
I think giving you old shoes so you had some time to look for new ones (second hand) was decent. They didn't need to do that.
That you refused to take care of your own safety probably really pissed them off.(if an accident happened they would have been in trouble for allowing you to work without safety gear)

ritan7471 · Post by **ritan7471** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:41 am

I have to agree with Rinso, it wasn't their responsibility to buy you the shoes you need for doing your job.

You shouldn't be angry at them and decide that they were at fault in this case. They really had no choice but to insist that you come to work with the proper clothes to do your job safely.

chiilii · Post by **chiilii** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:12 am

Thanks for your answers. I just wanna make it clear to you that working in the kitchen is neither my key field nor my desiring job and this training is just purposed for learning finnish language through customer services. Even so, I still tried my best to work in the kitchen. Another thing, I quit the training on my own request, not that they terminate my contract. In my opinion, safety shoes are equipment, not for fancy dressing, and they are properties of the company just like safety helmets in the construction site.

Rinso: could you please tell me where I can find the list of safety gears that must be provided by the employers in the catering industry? As I understood, safety shoes belong to safety gears that are needed to be provided in this field. I discussed to the employment office's officer before deciding to quit the training, and even the person said I don't need to buy the safety shoes if I don't want to and that quitting is ok. Personally, I don't think that they're pissed off because my safety at work is ignored since they let me work for the whole day with a rubbish-condition pair of shoes (my toes were coming out of the shoes).

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:17 pm

chiilii wrote: Rinso: could you please tell me where I can find the list of safety gears that must be provided by the employers in the catering industry? As I understood, safety shoes belong to safety gears that are needed to be provided in this field. I discussed to the employment office's officer before deciding to quit the training, and even the person said I don't need to buy the safety shoes if I don't want to and that quitting is ok. Personally, I don't think that they're pissed off because my safety at work is ignored since they let me work for the whole day with a rubbish-condition pair of shoes (my toes were coming out of the shoes).

By my quick reading of the legislation it also seemed like the employer should provide the safety shoes. This is something that union representatives should be able to easily answer. The relevant union is:

http://www.pam.fi/fi/sivut/default.aspx

However since you are most likely not a member, I don't know how easy it is to get answers from them. Worth a try though.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:44 pm

In my opinion, safety shoes are equipment, not for fancy dressing, and they are properties of the company just like safety helmets in the construction site.

There is a difference between a minimum quality of things you normally wear and additional gear that you outside the workplace won't wear.
What is considered "additional gear" (responsibility of the company) is a matter of case by case interpretation.
In my experience shoes are seen as a personal responsibility.

I discussed to the employment office's officer before deciding to quit the training, and even the person said I don't need to buy the safety shoes if I don't want to and that quitting is ok

And his angle was .....
It says nothing about the companies responsibility, only that they understand that you don't want to spent money on a one time training and that it (probably) won't influence your integration process.

cors187 · Post by **cors187** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:07 pm

The rules should be that-
1. Neither the TE office or the trainee are competent in classifying the required equipment.
2.The employer has this level of competency.
3.The Employer and the TE office should have this understanding in writing "as to what personal equipment the employer provides and what equipment the trainee provides". Therefore before accepting the training you understand the obligations.

You should return to the TE office asking for the conclusion and try to get a properly "expressed" training proposal.

I once had a young guy turn up in board shorts,T-shirt and thongs on a construction site.

I really think the TE office is responsible for not providing you with the correct information and therefore yours and the Employers experience sucked.
Also the Employer is responsible for not providing the requirements before accepting you.
Most of the blame is on the TE office worker responsible for not clarifying the exact details necessary for a smooth training period.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:55 am

The frame of the law should be quite similar around the EU (don't make me search for EU directives on this, there must be some), so I would expect the Finnish law to have a similar spirit.

Don't assume. The spirit might be the same, but details are national and sometimes the interpretation can differ slightly between different districts of the controlling authority.
I too have safety experience in another EU country. Shoes with steel soles and steel toes were considered safety equipment, shoes with only steel toes were a private responsibility.
(st-only shoes can be used normally in everyday life. if the employer supplied them it was taxable income)

Kamu · Post by **Kamu** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:03 pm

Hello,

topic is already a few monts old, but in case someone else is in the same situation, here are some answers.

Here are links to finlex and work safety administration web-pages concerning protective equipment (in finnish):
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/alkup/1993/19931407
http://www.tyosuojelu.fi/fi/suojaimet

Short translation:
It`s employer`s resbonsibility to pay and obtain proper protective device.

Some (especially small) employers are sometimes trying to fool people with this issue. Some workers even know this, but pay for those protective equipments themselves, because they are scared, that they might lose their jobs etc.

hollydolly · Post by **hollydolly** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:40 pm

Thanks a lot for your info, Kamu!

I just want to share my own story. I have been working in few restaurants for the last 5 years since I was still student. Non of my employers have provided safety shoes for me and I have bought those myself, not because I was afraid of losing job (my employers don't care whether I wear safety shoes at work or not), but because I am the one who gets injured if accident happens. Even though i can get sick leave from work, I bought what is needed for my own sake because I don't want to get hurt

I had spent time to search from UFF, Fida, flea markets at weekends to online for second-hand shoes

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