Anti Foreigner Sentiment? (and other questions)

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raskarhu
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:11 pm
Location: BE

Re: Anti Foreigner Sentiment? (and other questions)

Post by raskarhu » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:50 pm

Finland is racist and then again it's not. What can I say? Finland is just suspicious of most things foreign (looking), It's just that foreigners are singled out by police every day for no apparent reasons, it's just that people with foreign backgrounds are regularly insulted in the middle of public places (public transport, etc...) for no apparent reasons, it's just that foreigners will need to go to very great lengths to obtain a simple thing as a bank account, it s just that an openly racist political party - the Persut - is treated like any other political party in the media...

Apart from that: forgive them lord, they have come out of the woods only 100 years ago as one board member eagerly reminds us and foreigner has long time been a word associated mainly with Swedes (an effeminated underspecies of the German race that has dominated the Finns for many centuries) or Russians (a nation descended from the aforementioned Swedes and also oppressors and invaders of the Finnish nation), so quite understandably the Finns are not so keen on foreigners. Does that make them racist?

Well...yes. There is without any doubt a xenophobic undercurrent, which sometimes develops into pure racism. But Finns are quick learners, they'll be able to deal with it in some decades, when Somalaisia will have taken over from the Suomalaisia :twisted: :lol:



Re: Anti Foreigner Sentiment? (and other questions)

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Sander15
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:44 pm

Re: Anti Foreigner Sentiment? (and other questions)

Post by Sander15 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:37 pm

Its important to do deep research on a country before moving there

burak25
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:30 am

Re: Anti Foreigner Sentiment? (and other questions)

Post by burak25 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:32 pm

There is a million things to complain about Finland. (Starting from social behavior norms to how terrible vegetables are) BUT I cannot say Finns are racist, or more racist than any other EU country. Yes there are those idiots everywhere (just check youtube for Estonian taxi driver in Helsinki) but I never met a Finn that judged me differently because I was not Finnish. Not in student nor work life.

Of course I don't go and hang out with those always drunk, living on pension type of Finns (or whatever country they are from).

Flossy1978
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Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:38 pm

Re: Anti Foreigner Sentiment? (and other questions)

Post by Flossy1978 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:35 am

The words racism, racist etc are used too lightly nowadays.

The word is used on this forum in particular for anything a foreigner doesn't agree on.

Real racism is rife in so much more abhorrent ways in other countries, than in Finland.

What do you whinging foreigners expect from Finland? Life served to you on a gold platter????

It's Finland's right to make it difficult for a foreigner to get a bank account when they first arrive. After all, isn't it Finland's right to protect what is theirs from what could be a criminal act? You might be a saint, but Finnish banks don't know that. It's far from racist for a country to want to protect itself.

I have a problem with foreigners who make demands when it's them who move to Finland. We are coming into Finland. We adjust and we learn. Yes, Finnish people and society should also learn to accept foreigners. It would make life much nicer for all involved. But so many foreigners who rant and rave about how Finland is so racist, haven't even done their homework about Finland. They're just entitled and have no idea how the concept of a multicultural society is only rather new in Finland.

You can't expect such an ingrained society to be open and trusting of foreigners. It's the foreigner's job to prove their worth and to show their trust. The foreigner needs to integrate, not so much the Finnish person.

As time goes on and the borders relax even more, foreigners will be accepted more. The younger generations are much more accepting than the older ones, who currently employ and run the country.

Oho
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: Anti Foreigner Sentiment? (and other questions)

Post by Oho » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:09 am

Flossy1978 wrote: ...
Don't know how many times this has been repeated, the odds are good to ad nauseam but here goes anyway. Much of the things, it seems, many foreigners take for being related to their origin are not, in many cases Finns treat each other just the same. Apparent indifference is taken for rudeness when its nothing more than trying to keep your nose out of other peoples, you have little or anything to with, business. Most of my colleagues with whom I have worked for 6 years in rather tight group of thirteen rarely socialize or talk about their lives outside the office confines and we are Finns but two, an English bloke and a Spanish lady.

Oh incidentally during the relatively short stint I lived in Italy, at no stage was it unclear I would never ever be considered Italian when women married to Italy some 25 years before with adult children born and bred in Italy with Italian spouse were not. I heard this time and time again, full adult life in Italy with half Italian family made them no less foreign, sometimes even to siblings or parents of their spouses, but they had learned to accept it. Its a bit rich to think that a document of proof of Finnish citizenship would make a person with no concrete ties to the country a Finn in the eyes of the populace with shared history and at least a few generations six feet under. Citizenship is a legal concept, no more, no less.

PEMM
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:06 pm
Location: Rovaniemi, Finland

Re: Anti Foreigner Sentiment? (and other questions)

Post by PEMM » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:45 pm

Finland would not be my first choice if I came from English speaking country or were looking for jolly life.

I am not a foreigner living in Finland so I can't talk from the experience but I can imagine what it can be like. I have lived abroad so I can somewhat compare.

For me this country, although I love it, is more like a place of work. People used to be quite social in the old days or so I've heard from the stories. But as people moved to the cities I feel this has been lost, a little bit like how the food was ruined at the same time due to health program. As the butter and salt was taken away, the food became bland. And same happened to the people.

The older people and many of the young ones have reserved view of the foreigners. I can understand it for the older people. I will take my father as an example. He lived his youth in a house without electricity (in the 60's) far from any major cities like many of his generation. He has never left the country. Also in a family where work was appreciated and fun, like alcohol, was frowned upon. Now as you can imagine, when they moved to the cities they didn't really bring any kind of light of liberalism or continental mannerism with them. They were hard workers and so they tried to bring up their kids (however the welfare state has a bit ruined this aspect). I didn't spent my holidays (in the 90's and 00's) in the beach, instead we spent time on our family estate cutting trees, collecting berries and fishing. This was in the east, the social part of the country. The reservedness and attitude grow further you travel south and west (except when you hit fennoswedish coast). But as another side of the coin, further you go east and north, the less people have experience with foreigners. It was quite a talk when one of my cousins decided to marry a Spaniard. Yes, even white Europeans can be exotic in certain parts. Now imagine coming from Africa.

For the mindset: feelings and such does not enter their talk. Open shows of affection neither. Never as a kid saw my father kissing my mother or confess his love (they kept it personal and in their bedroom). Now as you can Imagine, after such upbringing I personally aren't any kind of open romantic either. I feel Finnish itself is unsuitable for speaking about feelings and such. It would be much easier for me to use English in such situations. ;)

Now if you want to come here, don't try to blend in too much. This way you can distinguish the real people from the bigots much easier. You will find the people who will enjoy being talkative and want to get to know you, although not easily. If you come here to learn about the country and don't expect too many nice things from the people and the country, you will succeed. But even after success the country won't become similar to other Europe.

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Pursuivant
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Location: Bath & Wells

Re: Anti Foreigner Sentiment? (and other questions)

Post by Pursuivant » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:23 pm

Blame the damn EU for not getting a bank account. Its their rules.

I can tell how "easy" it is to establish in the UK. In Finland atleast once you are "in the computer" things work. In the UK its vitun kaasulasku to prove your address to the bank. And don't even start me on these goddamned "credit rating agencies" and estate agents and background checks and.... morris dancers the lot of them.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

Bjoem
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:26 am

Re: Anti Foreigner Sentiment? (and other questions)

Post by Bjoem » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:45 am

[quote=
Upphew wrote:
Leipuri wrote:What I cannot really find online is how much there is an anti foreigner sentiment. I blend there. When I was there before, people always assumed I was a Finn. Speaking Finnish helped, but I will never "sound native." People will know I am other. I'm thinking at 4, my son will sound as Finnish as anyone once he has been there a few years. So will we have significant issues with being from somewhere else?
As times are (financially) harder there is more and more anti foreigner sentiment. It is mainly directed to those who live on the dole, can't or won't even try to learn Finnish or "steal" jobs. You don't seem to fit in any of those categories so I can't see any significant issues blending in. You know the Finnish mentality that if one peg stands out you hammer it in?
Well This answer is irrelevant (No offense here!) because often here in Finland it depends only on how anxious and angry a person is toward his/her work or financial situation, or how that person is tired of seeing some minorities enjoying the same benefits that a native enjoy . I have been working for many many years , i am originally from Africa and i can tell i have been more respected and appreciated for my job more than anything else. There is no category to fit in here bear in mind that Finns have attitude even toward themselves that might looks very strange for an outsider (you might have noticed that already) . The fact that you are an American does save you from a lot of prejudices that mostly target other foreigners. Finland is a very friendly , calm and secure place to be. However the weather , in other words the six months of dark and cold might just make you think again!

SecretCode
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:01 pm

Re: Anti Foreigner Sentiment? (and other questions)

Post by SecretCode » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:03 pm

Pursuivant wrote:.... morris dancers the lot of them.
:D Yup.
Image

Tiwaz
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Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:21 am

Re: Anti Foreigner Sentiment? (and other questions)

Post by Tiwaz » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:16 pm

Cory wrote:Well in our case, trying to push someone off a moving bus is not the way usual Finns behave towards each other.

Do you claim that is the "usual way" Finns behave towards foreigners?
Could you prove that? Because I have used bus quite a few times, with foreigners too, and failed to notice this queue of Finns trying to thrust them there.

Then again, there has been this chap around Pirkanmaa region at one point who has had habit of trying to run over kids, perfectly Finnish kids. Been a while since it was in the news. So do I have to draw conclusion that this basically one off case makes it "usual"?
And no, it is not usually the dark skinned foreigner's fault. Wish you would use the term because you don't classify me as a foreigner with my blue eyes and blond hair. Have a friend who is from Ghana who acts more Finnish than I do but it's her who is sometimes harrassed when we are out..never me. Give me a break.
No, I do not use that term because I do classify you as foreigner.
Your skin does not make you Finn. Your papers do not make you Finn. It is much more complex.
You are foreigner. As for your friend, she sticks out. Try sticking out like sore thumb and you might discover getting attention.


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