Holiday bonus

[TheTraveler]

Hi guys! Glad to be popping my cherry on this board.

I am sure this question has been around for some time but the forum's search didn't help much. Long story short:

I am an EU Software Developer working in Finland since last August. My contract is full time and indefinite term. Therefore I will be getting 16 vacation days to use starting this April(8 earning months). From my research, regarding vacation days, most companies pay:
1. normal pay for the vacation days: basically you get payed while you're on vacation like you would be on the job. Nothing spectacular here. Basic stuff.
2. bonus vacation pay: not all companies pay this but the basic package that a fair number of them pay is an extra 50% for the vacation days that you get the whole year. Some pay it in 2 steps, some pay it in one bulk pay, I am not really interested in the how. So in my case that would be an extra 8 days per year.

However, things are not always that simple. Intensifying my research and employing the help of some Finnish friends that could translate all the legal stuff for me I found out that this bonus is stated in the Applicable Collective Agreement for each work branch. The only issue is that in my contract that box is empty. So that's basically where my investigation was halted.
I am not a member of any Sindicate or some other Association and didn't knew about this before I signed the contract. Is there any default Collective Agreement that is automatically applied to all the employees in a certain business? Should I get that bonus?

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

Have you asked your employer and/or colleagues? Union membership or some such doesn't affect the wages being paid.

[riku2]

The only issue is that in my contract that box is empty. So that's basically where my investigation was halted.
I am not a member of any Sindicate or some other Association and didn't knew about this before I signed the contract. Is there any default Collective Agreement that is automatically applied to all the employees in a certain business? Should I get that bonus?

Ask the employer, perhaps they only put something there if your job is under a different collective agreement to the main one used by the company. My contracts have normally had it mentioned though. it's quite a big part of the employment contract in finland and covers things like overtime rates, if you get paid while travelling, daily travel allowance, on call money etc. I did work for one small company (overseas company with 9 employees in finland) and they didn't have one though, so it's not actually mandatory.
Once you find the name of it there is probably also an english version since there are so many foreigners in the IT sector.

[betelgeuse]

Ask the employer, perhaps they only put something there if your job is under a different collective agreement to the main one used by the company. My contracts have normally had it mentioned though. it's quite a big part of the employment contract in finland and covers things like overtime rates, if you get paid while travelling, daily travel allowance, on call money etc. I did work for one small company (overseas company with 9 employees in finland) and they didn't have one though, so it's not actually mandatory.
Once you find the name of it there is probably also an english version since there are so many foreigners in the IT sector.

Collective bargaining agreements in a field are generally binding on all companies if the employees/employers signing the agreement represent a big enough portion of the field.

I am an EU Software Developer working in Finland since last August.

The most likely collective bargaining agreement is this:

https://www.finlex.fi/data/tes/stes4602 ... al1311.pdf

However, it's not guaranteed to be this since the employer has some ability to choose agreements by selecting which employer organizations to join (if they are not part of any org then rules on whether an agreement is generally binding are used).

[Beep_Boop]

This is the IT sector collective agreement in English http://www.tietoala.fi/english/collecti ... ersion.pdf

[riku2]

one bizarre thing I remember from years past is that the collective agreement comes up for re-negotiation from time to time (since if you open the link you'll see that it's valid until 2016). Around that time the union and employers will get together to discuss a new one. However there is no guarantee they agree on the terms.
In this case (if both parties don't want to give way) ALL employees end up without a job contract (since the collective agreement has expired). This situation seems quite bizarre and from what I heard at the time the company can lock out all employees (since there is no job contract in place), this is despite the hapless locked out employee not being directly able to influence things (they cannot say they're happy with the old agreement or with most of the new terms and ask to be let in to work).

[betelgeuse]

one bizarre thing I remember from years past is that the collective agreement comes up for re-negotiation from time to time (since if you open the link you'll see that it's valid until 2016). Around that time the union and employers will get together to discuss a new one. However there is no guarantee they agree on the terms.
In this case (if both parties don't want to give way) ALL employees end up without a job contract (since the collective agreement has expired).

They do not end up without a job contract. The job contract is still valid. The collective bargaining agreement would just not be applied.

This situation seems quite bizarre and from what I heard at the time the company can lock out all employees (since there is no job contract in place), this is despite the hapless locked out employee not being directly able to influence things (they cannot say they're happy with the old agreement or with most of the new terms and ask to be let in to work).

Yes this is called lockout (työsulku) which is the employer equivalent of a strike. However, the employer will be loosing money with it since how will they generate revenue without employees? This means it won't be used lightly.

[betelgeuse]

However, things are not always that simple.

Secure yourself against downfall economy times and recession by joining One Trade Union.

Trade union membership can be debated. However, I don't know of any good reasons to not be a member of an unemployment fund.

[TheTraveler]

Have you asked your employer and/or colleagues? Union membership or some such doesn't affect the wages being paid.

My employer simply told me something like "We don't have this here". I specifically asked if I will be getting anything over my base salary in any of the months of this year, so I kind of exclude the possibility that he misunderstood.

This is the IT sector collective agreement in English http://www.tietoala.fi/english/collecti ... ersion.pdf

According to this I should be getting exactly what I was mentioning in my initial post.
So in not so many words there is a good chance I am being @#$%. Pardon my french

Thanks a lot for all the info, guys. I will look into this Unemployment funds and Union membership. Some of my friends recommended this TEK organization.

[TheTraveler]

Yes, I know it's common to get all those in more established companies. I would probably get those and a lot more back home, but since this is (kind of) a startup and the base salary wasn't that bad I said it's okay for my first job in Finland. It is after all a nice working experience.

I didn't knew anything about this vacation bonus when I decided to take the job so it's not like I was promised anything. But knowing that I am being refused something I am entitled to, really steps on my tits. From what I hear this bonus is extremely common for all types of full time workers and in the IT sector it's basically the norm.

[Beep_Boop]

and the base salary wasn't that

How much are we talking here? I'd be interested to know what startups are paying these days.

[riku2]

My employer simply told me something like "We don't have this here". I specifically asked if I will be getting anything over my base salary in any of the months of this year, so I kind of exclude the possibility that he misunderstood.
So in not so many words there is a good chance I am being @#$%. Pardon my french

This sounds like the company i worked for last year. we were transferred from a large finnish company to be the finnish office of a company from north america. We didn't have a collective agreement and had to argue with them about things like daily allowance (something that would be in a collective agreement). at first they wanted to pay us british/american style daily allowance which is where you collect receipts for meals, coffee etc. this isn't actually allowed by the finnish tax system and would not be tax free! I had to personally argue with the CFO to explain this and get us finnish daily amounts instead (as per vero.fi country specific rates). Many of our conditions they could not change (due to the law saying transferred employees must get the same benefits as in the previous job) so at least we didn't have arguments about overtime, holiday bonus etc.
After 18 months with this company they told us one morning they would shut down the office and the next day the HR flew in and said "this is your last day with us, we will pay you your notice period". And we all went home. They had even hired lawyers here to find out the minimum they could pay in this situation.
So beware of companies with no collective agreements, if you know the company well for many years then you might trust them. Otherwise beware.