Traffic rule (merging)

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livingthing
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:13 pm

Traffic rule (merging)

Post by livingthing » Mon May 18, 2015 9:29 pm

Hi,

I was wondering about how the merging rules (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merge_(traffic)) work in finland.
If a car coming from a urban area where max allowed speed is 30-40 joins the traffic on main road. Then what are the rules for joining the main lanes. If the car has acquired 80-90 speed and the max speed limit is 100 then how does that car joins the traffic.
What about the cars that are already on the road ?. Do they speed down or up when they see some car trying to merge or do they usually change the lane.
In short, what are the rules :)



Traffic rule (merging)

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007
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Re: Traffic rule (merging)

Post by 007 » Mon May 18, 2015 10:16 pm

livingthing wrote:Hi,

I was wondering about how the merging rules (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merge_(traffic)) work in finland.
If a car coming from a urban area where max allowed speed is 30-40 joins the traffic on main road. Then what are the rules for joining the main lanes.
there will definitely be a Image. If not, one should watch whether there's already vehicles on the road or approaching closer. They have right of way.
If the car has acquired 80-90 speed and the max speed limit is 100 then how does that car joins the traffic.
in such cases, usually this happens while joining motorways, one should maintain the current speed (above 80) while still at accelerating lane or better watch out the speed of the vehicles already on the road....and maintain the speed so that you can get in between the vehicles. This one is bit tricky. But the one I learned is you try to drive shoulder to shoulder with the vehicle already on the motorway... and then just slow down enough to get in behind the vehicle. You can practice this on empty motorway esp at night.... maintaining the speed is key unless accelerating lane is about to finish and there's no sight of gaps between the vehicles at high speed.
What about the cars that are already on the road ?. Do they speed down or up when they see some car trying to merge or do they usually change the lane.
In short, what are the rules :)
they should maintain their current speed in most cases. afaik, it's against the rules to change a lane unnecessarily and that includes changing lanes in order to let others in. Police can issue fines.
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riku2
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Re: Traffic rule (merging)

Post by riku2 » Mon May 18, 2015 11:27 pm

there is some explanation here http://www.expat-finland.com/pdf/driving_in_finland.pdf

The rule is that YOU give way to traffic coming from public roads on YOUR RIGHT, except if your road is a "priority road" or if the road on the right has a give way sign.

This in effect is a totally stupid way to design roads. you often have to look for THE BACK of a give way sign to see if cars coming from the right have a give way sign. if the angle is right (it's directly edge on to you) then it's almost invisible. You eventually learn the junctions on your regular route (great logic there, you have to learn through experience how different junctions are posted). Because of this people will stop unnecessarily in front of you since they don't know they have priority.

"priority road" is one with the speed limit > 40km/h or a yellow diamond sign (page 23 of the pdf). In Holland they have these yellow diamonds just before the junctions where you have priority - very sensible. In Finland they save their money and avoid too many signs, so you must remember there was one a few hundred metres earlier (more great logic). There is no logic as to which roads are "priority roads" and which aren't. I know of several stretches of road in helsinki where the road will change from normal to "priority road" although there is no difference in road width/volume/road type/speed limit.

To complete the disaster, you must be able to distinguish between public roads and private roads/driveways. Since only public roads have priority from the right. Sounds sensible but many shop entrances, big driveways or farm roads look like public roads.I suppose you can look for a street name sign - since private roads don't normally have those.

All in all traffic chaos. but most places have little traffic so the planners don't bother with the concept of getting maximum number of cars safely along the roads. Why bother with clear signs if there is one car every 10minutes!
What about the cars that are already on the road ?. Do they speed down or up when they see some car trying to merge or do they usually change the lane
If you are talking about motorways then the cars joining SHOULD adjust their speed and fit into the gaps like already mentioned here. In reality people drive on at full speed expecting a gap. most drivers already on the motorway will move to the left to let these impolite types join. some drivers (older types) will actually slow down to let people join - so affecting traffic behind them. if you are joining the motorway and behaving properly you should not pull directly in front of cars already on the motorway so these well intending types are actually a problem since you slow down, they slow down and soon you'll both be doing 30km'h on the motorway! these same types will stop while going around a roundabout to let people join from the right (something I have never ever seen happen in England). Watch out for these types (normally older drivers) since you will rear end them otherwise. They are also likely to drive straight onto roundabouts and not even look to their left, so watch out for this situation also.

After a few years you'll get to identify the mistakes people are about to make. pull in front of you and force you to brake, come onto motorways and roundabouts incorrectly. change lanes without looking. most of them you can avoid. probably the people going through red traffic lights are the hardest to avoid since they are going so fast (most of these are on the phone while doing it). But still when driving in finland I have to brake to avoid somebody behaving impolitely at least once an hour while driving. In England I might go a week without having to brake for somebody driving impolitely.

caster
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Re: Traffic rule (merging)

Post by caster » Tue May 19, 2015 12:05 am

All intersections on motorways are hazardous for everyone using them - it is a common norm to be vigilant while passing through the intersections for the cars already on motorway and to the one joining must follow the flow regardless of speed. As already mentioned in another post - some drivers are impatient and does not facilitate as they should by allowing the merger.

Merger in built up areas is always tricky - just allow the traffic joining from your right - there is no harm slowing down while keeping your eyes open to the ones coming from right or even if there is no one you see - just slow down - especially in summer there are many young drivers - practicing or just burning their rubber - there are cyclist and motorcyclists that are the big surprise.

Caution: Built-up or motorway - always slow down and give way. :thumbsup:
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DMC
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Re: Traffic rule (merging)

Post by DMC » Tue May 19, 2015 8:54 am

livingthing wrote:What about the cars that are already on the road ?. Do they speed down or up when they see some car trying to merge or do they usually change the lane.
Many times all the drivers on the main road speed up to try to close the gap between themselves and the vehicle in front of them so that the joining car doesn't join in front of them. I used to see this every morning on one commute. I would be in a constant stream of cars all more or less evenly spaced at about 80 kph as we approached a road merging in from the right. A huge gap would then open up in front of me as everyone ahead accelerated to keep their place in the "queue", not letting the mergers join the main road. Totally stupid.

riku2
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Re: Traffic rule (merging)

Post by riku2 » Tue May 19, 2015 11:23 am

Many times all the drivers on the main road speed up to try to close the gap between themselves and the vehicle in front of them so that the joining car doesn't join in front of them.
In japan in heavy traffic situations like this the drivers on the main road will open up a gap so that cars can join one car from the side, one car from the main road, zip fashion. This works wonderfully because everyone has the belief that if you work together and all follow one rule then everybody benefits. But this concept is totally missing in Finland. If a few people behave impolitely and don't follow the rule then the rule breaks down and nobody opens up a gap. everybody suffers.

The same thing happens on roundabouts in finland. people don't bother to signal. people joining can't be sure who's doing what. they wait longer. the total throughput of the roundabout drops. there is a traffic jam on the approach to it. If people signalled clearly there would be no traffic jam. but the same selfish attitude prevails and everyone suffers.

Upphew
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Re: Traffic rule (merging)

Post by Upphew » Tue May 19, 2015 11:41 am

riku2 wrote:In japan in heavy traffic situations like this the drivers on the main road will open up a gap so that cars can join one car from the side, one car from the main road, zip fashion. This works wonderfully because everyone has the belief that if you work together and all follow one rule then everybody benefits. But this concept is totally missing in Finland. If a few people behave impolitely and don't follow the rule then the rule breaks down and nobody opens up a gap. everybody suffers.
Come to see SaiPa's ice hockey game and you shall see the concept isn't totally missing.
riku2 wrote:The same thing happens on roundabouts in finland. people don't bother to signal. people joining can't be sure who's doing what. they wait longer. the total throughput of the roundabout drops. there is a traffic jam on the approach to it. If people signalled clearly there would be no traffic jam. but the same selfish attitude prevails and everyone suffers.
True, but the blame can be put partly to too small roundabouts. Eg. https://goo.gl/maps/ClT28
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riku2
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Re: Traffic rule (merging)

Post by riku2 » Tue May 19, 2015 2:01 pm

Upphew wrote:True, but the blame can be put partly to too small roundabouts. Eg. https://goo.gl/maps/ClT28
yes that one is far too small to be a two lane roundabout. they should make it one lane and it would be safer and probably higher throughput. what were they thinking?

This one though is the best I have found in Finland:

https://www.google.fi/maps/place/01900+ ... 90!6m1!1e1

Somebody ordered a roundabout built but didn't order the right road signs to match. So this is a T junction (only one of the side roads has a give way sign) !! Plus the tarmac area on the edge of the roundabout isn't actually wide enough for a car (even a small one) since it's only about 1m wide!! Did a child wander into the council offices from daycare and draw something on a map that was then ordered by mistake?

riku2
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Re: Traffic rule (merging)

Post by riku2 » Sun May 24, 2015 7:32 pm

Upphew wrote: True, but the blame can be put partly to too small roundabouts. Eg. https://goo.gl/maps/ClT28
I did not notice at first but the roundabout you refer to in LPR and one I saw today in Jarvepnaa are some new bizarre design they are using in Finland for "two lane" roundabouts: the roundabout is not the same width all around. It is two lanes wide except for a couple of sections from 11 o clock - 12 o clock and 5 o clock - 6 o clock where it's one lane wide. I have never seen this before and i suppose somebody thought it enforces lane discipline in some way. The LPR has the blocking parts (when it goes from 2 -> 1 lane wide) with different road surface but on the jarvenpaa one (only just finished) they are a bit more brave and the lane blocker part has a raised kerb. Of course no advance signage about what you will imminently encounter once you drive onto this 2 lane / 1 lane roundabout.

on the LPR roundabout they have not bothered to paint in dotted lines at the entrance to the roundabout - so I would expect plenty of drivers don't think they need to stop, especially since the give way sign is some distance before the roundabout (at the pedestrian crossing) !

After some more research that roundabout in LPR and the one I saw in jarvenpaa (and one they will soon build in Tuusula) is a dutch turbo roundabout. It's designed to force people to choose the correct lane before entering the roundabout - people certainly need forcing to do that in finland since they are hopeless at lane discipline otherwise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMYib3IR43I


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