A permit after graduation duration

Random Dude · Post by **Random Dude** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:51 pm

Hello Guys,
I am completely new to this site and I was wondering if someone could give me some advice on my situation.

So, I recently graduated with a Bachelors degree from Finland and applied for a A permit based on my employment. I fulfill all the criteria for the permit and in fact within a week time I received my new A permit but sadly they only gave me a permit with a one year duration. As I know from few other graduates, you get a 4 year permit after graduation and my question is, Is there anything I can do about it? How exactly is the duration decided and can I appeal the decision? any information or advice will be highly appreciated. Thanks.

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betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:31 pm

Random Dude wrote: So, I recently graduated with a Bachelors degree from Finland and applied for a A permit based on my employment. I fulfill all the criteria for the permit and in fact within a week time I received my new A permit but sadly they only gave me a permit with a one year duration. As I know from few other graduates, you get a 4 year permit after graduation and my question is, Is there anything I can do about it?

The default is to get a four year permit. However, if there's cause it's possible for them to give a shorter permit.

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 0301#L4P55
https://www.eduskunta.fi/FI/vaski/Halli ... 4+2006.pdf

If the decision doesn't say why it was given for one year, there should be contact details where you can ask.

Random Dude wrote: How exactly is the duration decided and can I appeal the decision? any information or advice will be highly appreciated. Thanks.

The decision says whether you can appeal (yes) and has appeal instructions.

Random Dude · Post by **Random Dude** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:17 pm

Thank you for the information mate. Yea, I was just hoping to figure out what are the conditions for a one year extension and a four year extension? and ya the thing is they haven't provided any reasons for the short extension decision and as far as my knowledge goes my work agreement and income meets the criteria for an employment based extension.

Although I do have the extra attachment with instructions to appeal and a contact number, it seems the appeal process is more of legal (Court) process and requires you to have a legal ground for your claim. Hence, I thought it would help to know how it goes from someone with similar past experiences or someone who is aware of these processes before I contact them.

Beep_Boop · Post by **Beep_Boop** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:37 pm

Wait, what?!
Aren't A permits always given 1 year first and then 4 years after that? To me, it seems like OP had a B permit and then applied for an A permit. It's only natural that he got 1 year. The fact that you graduated from a Finnish university means that you'll bypass the job market requirements and your application's decision will be made straight by the police.

Is there actually some law that says you get 4 years on your first A permit if you graduated from a Finnish university?

farfaraway · Post by **farfaraway** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:42 pm

adnan wrote:Wait, what?!
Aren't A permits always given 1 year first and then 4 years after that? To me, it seems like OP had a B permit and then applied for an A permit. It's only natural that he got 1 year. The fact that you graduated from a Finnish university means that you'll bypass the job market requirements and your application's decision will be made straight by the police.

Is there actually some law that says you get 4 years on your first A permit if you graduated from a Finnish university?

Yes, three of my friends have a 4-year permit after switching from B permit (Student permit), I guess that is how it works now. I don't now if it is by laws or not, but they are holding 4-year permit now

All of them have their Bachelor's degree in Finland

Random Dude · Post by **Random Dude** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:49 pm

Thanks a bunch guys for all the information. For some reason I replied earlier but it is not posting it ( maybe I did it wrong). Yea, I guess what I am trying to figure out is if there is any conditions for four year extension and one year extension? I am also pretty sure there are people who get a 4 year extension right away in the first A permit. So, basically what I am wondering is if I can appeal my decision with a legal ground??? Especially as they have given me no reason for my short extension.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:52 pm

adnan wrote: Aren't A permits always given 1 year first and then 4 years after that?

1+4 only applies if A is your first permit.

adnan wrote: To me, it seems like OP had a B permit and then applied for an A permit. It's only natural that he got 1 year. The fact that you graduated from a Finnish university means that you'll bypass the job market requirements and your application's decision will be made straight by the police.

Is there actually some law that says you get 4 years on your first A permit if you graduated from a Finnish university?

It's convoluted but I already gave the relevant Finlex references (you can cross reference to the English translation [1]). It says max 4 years (with the government proposal saying it is the default) for second permits (excluding some special cases of B a to A conversion that are not relevant for this case). Graduating from a Finnish university is not relevant for the section in question.

[1] http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 040301.pdf

Beep_Boop · Post by **Beep_Boop** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:50 pm

betelgeuse wrote:1+4 only applies if A is your first permit.

Which is precisely OP's case. It's his first A permit.
It's perfectly normal he got 1 year. No appeal will change that. It's always 1 + 4. You first A RP is 1 year, then the second is 4 years.

farfaraway wrote:Yes, three of my friends have a 4-year permit after switching from B permit (Student permit), I guess that is how it works now. I don't now if it is by laws or not, but they are holding 4-year permit now All of them have their Bachelor's degree in Finland

I highly doubt that you're correct.
I'm quite confident that after "switching" from a B permit, you're given a 1 year A permit.

Could betelgeuse (or some other knowledgeable guys like betelgeuse) please provide a source or an answer to the following specific question:
Is there something in the law that would explicitly allow giving a 4-year A-type RP for a first A-type RP? More specifically, coming from a B-type RP.
The case is the following: You're a student on a B permit. You graduate from a Finnish university. Now you're applying for an A permit. Is there a case where you'll be given 4 years for this first A permit?

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:46 pm

adnan wrote:
betelgeuse wrote:1+4 only applies if A is your first permit.
Which is precisely OP's case. It's his first A permit.
It's perfectly normal he got 1 year. No appeal will change that. It's always 1 + 4. You first A RP is 1 year, then the second is 4 years.

first A permit != A as first permit

The latter was referenced in my quote.

adnan wrote: Could betelgeuse (or some other knowledgeable guys like betelgeuse) please provide a source or an answer to the following specific question:
Is there something in the law that would explicitly allow giving a 4-year A-type RP for a first A-type RP? More specifically, coming from a B-type RP.
The case is the following: You're a student on a B permit. You graduate from a Finnish university. Now you're applying for an A permit. Is there a case where you'll be given 4 years for this first A permit?

Relevant quotes from the Aliens Act:

"(6) A new fixed-term residence permit is issued on new grounds if such grounds would qualify the alien for the first residence permit."

"A new fixed-term residence permit is issued for a maximum of four years. (358/2007)"

Fixed-term residence permit refers to both A and B. In your scenario the default is for the A permit to be four years.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:01 am

betelgeuse wrote:
adnan wrote: Aren't A permits always given 1 year first and then 4 years after that?
1+4 only applies if A is your first permit.

adnan wrote: To me, it seems like OP had a B permit and then applied for an A permit. It's only natural that he got 1 year. The fact that you graduated from a Finnish university means that you'll bypass the job market requirements and your application's decision will be made straight by the police.

Is there actually some law that says you get 4 years on your first A permit if you graduated from a Finnish university?
It's convoluted but I already gave the relevant Finlex references (you can cross reference to the English translation [1]). It says max 4 years (with the government proposal saying it is the default) for second permits (excluding some special cases of B a to A conversion that are not relevant for this case). Graduating from a Finnish university is not relevant for the section in question.

[1] http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 040301.pdf

Permits for studies are always temporary, one year at time. Your link to law is quite clear: Section 53 First Fixed term residence permits are issued for one year.

edit. 53 §
Ensimmäisen määräaikaisen oleskeluluvan pituus

Ensimmäinen määräaikainen oleskelulupa myönnetään yhdeksi vuodeksi, kuitenkin enintään hakijan matkustusasiakirjan voimassaoloajaksi, jollei oleskelulupaa haeta lyhyemmäksi ajaksi.
...
Määräaikaista oleskelulupaa ei saa kuitenkaan myöntää yli kahdeksi vuodeksi.
...
Ulkomaalaiselle, joka on ollut Suomen kansalainen tai jonka vanhemmista ainakin toinen tai yksi isovanhemmista on tai on ollut syntyperäinen Suomen kansalainen, määräaikainen oleskelulupa myönnetään neljäksi vuodeksi, jollei sitä haeta lyhyemmäksi ajaksi.

Basically I read that as: first A permit 1 year, unless some specific reason to make it up to two years and if you have been Finn or one of your parents or grandparens is or has been Finn it can be granted for four years.

Flossy1978 · Post by **Flossy1978** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:13 am

In all honesty, does it really matter? So you just apply at the end of the one year. It'll go through easily if you still meet the criteria.

And from the sources given here, it says a "maximum of four years". That means up to four years. So one year is a possibility.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:15 am

Btw, have you noticed that the permit you get to look for a job after you graduate is now one year instead of 6 months?

Random Dude · Post by **Random Dude** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:34 am

Thanks for all the comments and input guys.

Firstly, I am more than a 100% sure that you can get a 4 year Residence Permit after graduation and in fact a close friend of mine got it like 2 months ago. Also, I know now apparently different cities have different "rules" regarding the direct 4 years and 1+4 years extension. I believe in Helsinki, the usual process is you get 1 years and then 4 years whereas in Tampere you get 4 years straight. As a matter of fact, I know no one who has received a 1 year extension after graduation in Tampere.

Now coming back to the point, I lodged my application in Jyväskylä and received a one year extension and what I am trying to figure out is why the distinction? and does it have something to do with location or personal application or sth else???

Finally why am I butthurt for getting a one year extension? Well for starters, four year extension means I would not have to make sure I have full-time work with a permanent contract just next summer. I can definitely use the application money for something better and finally the most important reason is I will have flexibility to move around, try different jobs and travel as I please.

Beep_Boop · Post by **Beep_Boop** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:51 am

Well, I guess I learned something new today.
I had always thought that your first A-type permit is always 1 year, regardless of whether you had B-type before it or not. In fact, this was the case for almost everybody I know.

While I still think that there might be some confusion on OP's part (his/her friend might have had A-type permit for 1 year before the graduation), I can see that there is some plausibility of the first A-type being 4 years (if it's not your first RP).

Also, this thing about city-to-city difference sounds a bit strange to me. I mean, I certainly got a 1-year A-type permit after being in Finland on a B-type permit. My girlfriend at the time was in the same situation after finishing her Masters. Her ex's situation was the same.
Strange.

Random Dude · Post by **Random Dude** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:02 am

Yea Adnan, I know for sure that he had a B (student) permit just like me. Thus, the confusion??? Also, I was discussing with a few other people who also got a straight 4 years in recent years so I suppose it could either be a new thing or municipal thing as they are mostly from Tampere.

I suppose I was trying to find someone who might have had or knows someone with similar situation like mine and had tried appealing. I don't want to make a big fuss with the whole appealing in administrative court with my decision and someone with similar past or related experiences might help to understand things better.

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