Bizarre parking fine

rayoflight · Post by **rayoflight** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:41 am

I got my first parking ticket ever in Ruolahti today. I parked in a 2 hour parking zone marked with a sign 8-20 at 18. I was not fined because of time violation but because I was too close to a Easypark designated parking space. But I clearly wasn't blocking any parked car and there were no signs to show this was a no parking area or anything like that. I did take a photo of my car to at least prove the location of it.

But what should I do next, is there any point in arguing? Are they gonna listen. Is there any office where I can go and talk to someone about this? I don't fancy paying €60 to these thugs.

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Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:45 am

I think you should post the photo if you want to get informed comments. You can cover the car with a black rectangle if you wish.

Honest · Post by **Honest** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:48 am

I don't know about the office in your area but there must be an office and you should go there and ask them to cencel the ticket. If they don't and you believe that you are absolutely right ask them to give you the form to make a complaint against their decision. Then it goes to some kind of court but it doesn't cost you anything and you'll not be required to go there persoanlly (at least in most of the cases). It might take some time but I have won a case trhough this process and got my 40 euros back.

rayoflight · Post by **rayoflight** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:01 am

Hey thanks for your quick reply guys. I will try to do this Honest, will call the office first and cross check the reason for the ticket.

Rip, Unfortunately the photo I took only shows the relative position of the car in the street to the building and a parking sign post, so it won't help here to establish how far it was from the designated parking spot. Unfortunately I didn't take a photo showing the position of the car in relation to the designated parking, as I at that time did not know what the ticket was for (I don't read Finnish yet). However, the photo I took can still prove that the car was relatively far from the parking space (or so I hope) as the parking sign is clearly visible.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:19 am

rayoflight wrote: But what should I do next, is there any point in arguing? Are they gonna listen. Is there any office where I can go and talk to someone about this? I don't fancy paying €60 to these thugs.

There are appeal instructions on the ticket. There's an online form it here:

http://www.hel.fi/www/helsinki/fi/karta ... virhemaksu

It will only cost you time so whether there's point depends on how much you value it. You will still have to pay even if you appeal. You will get it back if you win. The first step of appeal are the parking people themselves so it's unlikely to prevail unless there's a clear error. The administrative court as the next step is more neutral.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:22 am

betelgeuse wrote: It will only cost you time so whether there's point depends on how much you value it. You will still have to pay even if you appeal. You will get it back if you win.

Actually the link says no need to pay when the appeal is being processed. Maybe this is different from Espoo where I challenged a ticket once.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:53 am

rayoflight wrote: Rip, Unfortunately the photo I took only shows the relative position of the car in the street to the building and a parking sign post, so it won't help here to establish how far it was from the designated parking spot. Unfortunately I didn't take a photo showing the position of the car in relation to the designated parking, as I at that time did not know what the ticket was for (I don't read Finnish yet). However, the photo I took can still prove that the car was relatively far from the parking space (or so I hope) as the parking sign is clearly visible.

Is the location on Google streetview?

There are appeal instructions on the ticket. There's an online form it here:

http://www.hel.fi/www/helsinki/fi/karta ... virhemaksu

Was the parking ticket from Helsinki city or from Easypark? If latter, OP should NOT rush to contact them. It may be his best first line of defense would be to deny even driving the car.

rayoflight · Post by **rayoflight** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:35 am

Rip wrote:
rayoflight wrote: Rip, Unfortunately the photo I took only shows the relative position of the car in the street to the building and a parking sign post, so it won't help here to establish how far it was from the designated parking spot. Unfortunately I didn't take a photo showing the position of the car in relation to the designated parking, as I at that time did not know what the ticket was for (I don't read Finnish yet). However, the photo I took can still prove that the car was relatively far from the parking space (or so I hope) as the parking sign is clearly visible.
Is the location on Google streetview?

There are appeal instructions on the ticket. There's an online form it here:

http://www.hel.fi/www/helsinki/fi/karta ... virhemaksu
Was the parking ticket from Helsinki city or from Easypark? If latter, OP should NOT rush to contact them. It may be his best first line of defense would be to deny even driving the car.

Hey I had the same idea about street view. If you can see the Renault in street view, that is exactly where I was parked give or take a few CMs!

https://www.google.fi/maps/place/Santak ... a6026ce43b

The ticket I think is from the city. Will try to appeal.

Hämeen Hitain · Post by **Hämeen Hitain** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:58 am

What is the round traffic sign behind Renault?

Edit: Renault seems to be in the crossing of Santakatu and Sinikaislankuja. Parking in crossings is always forbidden.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:04 pm

Rip wrote: Was the parking ticket from Helsinki city or from Easypark? If latter, OP should NOT rush to contact them. It may be his best first line of defense would be to deny even driving the car.

I operated based on the former since the latter can't issue parking tickets (they are breach of contract penalties). However, it's a good point that the OP probably wasn't aware of this distinction. As RIP says you have no duty to tell private companies who was driving the car that day and the duty to pay is only if they can prove who was the other party to the contract (the signs on the posts).

rayoflight · Post by **rayoflight** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:56 pm

Called the office concerning these tickets. The ticket was for parking "next to the parking area", i.e. not within the parking area (where you see the board with 8-20 sign).

I was given this leaflet with a parking disc by the parking authority when I arrived in Helsinki, and even use it as a my parking disc, http://www.hel.fi/static/hkr/julkaisut/ ... en_web.pdf

If one follows all the signs and instructions provided in that leaflet, one does not get clear message that where I parked was not allowed. There is no The lady said that while there was no sign around where I parked there must be a sign "somewhere in this street" to say what is the general rule, i.e. a no parking zone. The sign at the back is the one to show this is a pedestrian footpath - one with adult and child holding hands.

After looking at the photo again that I took last night, and one taken by the parking attendant I was actually pretty much next to the P sign but before it and not after (so not where the Renault is sorry). The parking zone starts after the blue sign. I thought they normally put arrows and meters to indicate when this is the case (they do around where I live in Espoo), but Helsinki seems different. But that doesn't matter now, I guess I will make a futile appeal and then pay anyway.

rayoflight · Post by **rayoflight** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:58 pm

BTW, thanks all for your replies, they are useful. Just to say that the lady in parking office said you DON'T need to pay immediately if you appeal, and if they reject it then you just pay the same fine.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:32 pm

rayoflight wrote: After looking at the photo again that I took last night, and one taken by the parking attendant I was actually pretty much next to the P sign but before it and not after (so not where the Renault is sorry). The parking zone starts after the blue sign. I thought they normally put arrows and meters to indicate when this is the case (they do around where I live in Espoo), but Helsinki seems different. But that doesn't matter now, I guess I will make a futile appeal and then pay anyway.

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 0182#L3P19

"Merkki 521

Merkillä osoitetaan ajoradan ulkopuolella olevaa tai ajoradasta tiemerkinnöin erotettua aluetta, joka on varattu ajoneuvojen pysäköintiin."

The P sign is supposed to be come with markings in the road or a separate area. Based on Google maps the markings seem to be missing. Include this in your appeal and see what happens.

rayoflight · Post by **rayoflight** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:01 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
rayoflight wrote: After looking at the photo again that I took last night, and one taken by the parking attendant I was actually pretty much next to the P sign but before it and not after (so not where the Renault is sorry). The parking zone starts after the blue sign. I thought they normally put arrows and meters to indicate when this is the case (they do around where I live in Espoo), but Helsinki seems different. But that doesn't matter now, I guess I will make a futile appeal and then pay anyway.
https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 0182#L3P19

"Merkki 521

Merkillä osoitetaan ajoradan ulkopuolella olevaa tai ajoradasta tiemerkinnöin erotettua aluetta, joka on varattu ajoneuvojen pysäköintiin."

The P sign is supposed to be come with markings in the road or a separate area. Based on Google maps the markings seem to be missing. Include this in your appeal and see what happens.

Yes indeed! I argued about this to the operator on the phone who said "road markings are only there to help, you are still supposed to follow the rules". Upon second check on the street view the signs she mentions is just missing completely on the whole street - i.e. no parking area or restricted parking. The fine was even handed over after 8pm when the restrictions end, but anyway I guess they don't apply if their argument is that the car is illegally parked.

Thanks a lot for pointing this out in detail, I will include this along with a copy of their own guide in my appeal.

Hämeen Hitain · Post by **Hämeen Hitain** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:39 pm

Do they have merkki 373. Pysäköintikieltoalue around the area? They could be kilometers away.

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