foreign applicants score vs finnish applicants score

RevealingtheTruth · Post by **RevealingtheTruth** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:55 am

Can someone please explain to me why do the students from abroad (foreign students) need to score higher on entrance exams than finnish students....it this fair? at this moment i am deeply disappointed in the finnish education system...here is the link

http://www.lamk.fi/english/future-stude ... 4_LUAS.pdf

RevealingtheTruth

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Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:37 am

It clearly says why on top of the paper. And why would you be dissapointed in a system you have not been into? Just look in the mirror for the reason of your low score - if you need an explanation of a clearly stated fact, you just proved the point.

Oho · Post by **Oho** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:08 am

RevealingtheTruth wrote:Can someone please explain to me why do the students from abroad (foreign students) need to score higher on entrance exams than finnish students....it this fair?

Yes.

RevealingtheTruth · Post by **RevealingtheTruth** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:20 pm

Pursuivant wrote:It clearly says why on top of the paper. And why would you be disappointed in a system you have not been into? Just look in the mirror for the reason of your low score - if you need an explanation of a clearly stated fact, you just proved the point.

The question is "Why" the scoring is different, not "how" they are scored differently.

Kysymys oli " Miksi " pisteytys on erilainen, ei " miten se on erilainen "

Voitako siis vastata kysymykseen, " Miksi " pisteytys on erilainen, jos sen niin helposti dokumentin ylareunasta ymmarsit?
RevealingtheTruth

Taivasvaeltaja · Post by **Taivasvaeltaja** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:43 pm

It may feel unfair, but education is expensive. For Finland it is better to have students who will stay in Finland after their degree and pay taxes.

twinflamelover · Post by **twinflamelover** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:26 am

tummansininen wrote:
RevealingtheTruth wrote:Can someone please explain to me why do the students from abroad (foreign students) need to score higher on entrance exams than finnish students....it this fair? at this moment i am deeply disappointed in the finnish education system...here is the link

http://www.lamk.fi/english/future-stude ... 4_LUAS.pdf

RevealingtheTruth
Maybe you can explain why you think you should be entitled to what Finnish taxpayers paid for at all.

why are you talking about politics? just answer the question...WHY ? is it different

wow! i did not know this was a political forum

EternalSelf · Post by **EternalSelf** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:58 am

Taivasvaeltaja wrote:It may feel unfair, but education is expensive. For Finland it is better to have students who will stay in Finland after their degree and pay taxes.

so are you saying that in finland, the ones who pay more get the better place in education?

You are saying it is fair that the Finnish get in with lower qualifications, because their scoring is paid for by other Finnish people.

I thought the qualifications and scoring in the finnish education system were built on equality and honesty, and not on race or gender or who pays most money.

Where does it say this is the reason why the scoring is different for people from different nations? Share your sources please.

That answer is not logical, because you are talking about international Nursing line, that is meant to prepare also the Finnish people to move abroad. So your reasoning about those finnish people who move abroad paying taxes back to Finland is in not solid.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:48 am

Because, if you go to Finnish lukio, "everyone knows" what and how you learn, and what the eximia in the report card stands for. So they can give points on that, so far that wit enogh laudatur you don't need to take a test.

Foreigners have foreign degrees from foreignschools which you don't know anything about, so the only way to assess them is byvthe exam only.

EternalSelf · Post by **EternalSelf** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:12 am

Pursuivant wrote:Because, if you go to Finnish lukio, "everyone knows" what and how you learn, and what the eximia in the report card stands for. So they can give points on that, so far that wit enogh laudatur you don't need to take a test.

Foreigners have foreign degrees from foreignschools which you don't know anything about, so the only way to assess them is byvthe exam only.

if us finns scored as well in the test as the ones from abroad, there would be a higher standard of score requirement for finns as well.

This graph shows, that finnish people get lower scores in general than the ones coming from other countries.

It just shows that those coming from the finnish schools are not as well educated

EternalSelf · Post by **EternalSelf** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:20 am

tummansininen wrote: ...instead of complaining that it's not fair that Finland is not giving you (foreigners) enough.

Either that or take your bat & ball and go study somewhere else.

Nobody is complaining, they are talking about the Scoring

RevealingtheTruth · Post by **RevealingtheTruth** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:12 am

To: Pursuivant and Tummansininen(much respect to you)

Still does not answer the question....

If Finland does not make it fair for her foreign applicants, then why advertise equality education for ALL..fair is fair, exam scoring should be the same for ALL...whether they are foreigners or finns....how can you say that you have the best educational system when in fact the standard of admission is compromised/ lower for its own citizens? Therefore the integrity of the educational system is not deemed to be what it is proclaimed to be.

For example let us consider the Olympics, just because the games are held or being hosted in your country does not mean you receive 3 gold medals before the games begin, NO! you earn the medals based upon whether your team wins 1st, 2nd or 3rd place...

In other countries the exam scoring is based upon the individual not upon their citizenship.

Furthermore, free tuition is not a true issue because the foreign students pay their own living expenses. Finland is not giving any foreign students any money to attend school in Finland. So actually, the foreign student are putting money into the finnish economy..

And specifically to you Tummansininen, Thank you for revealing your prejudice and racism. Your attitude here is hurting Finland and not helping her, because if tuition was not free, then how many foreign students would come to Finland to freeze their ass off to go to school...
Also, I am currently a student here in Finland, and this is a true account of my experience....

YksiSuomi · Post by **YksiSuomi** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:17 am

Pursuivant wrote:Because, if you go to Finnish lukio, "everyone knows" what and how you learn, and what the eximia in the report card stands for. So they can give points on that, so far that wit enogh laudatur you don't need to take a test.

Foreigners have foreign degrees from foreignschools which you don't know anything about, so the only way to assess them is byvthe exam only.

Itseasiassa, jos suomalaiset sais yhtä hyviä pisteitä, kuin ulkomaalaiset, se heijastuis myös suomalaisten hakijoiden pisteiden alarajassa.

Toisinsanottuna, jos meidän koulujärjestelmä ois muita parempi ja oltais muita niin paljon viisaampia kuin meille mainostetaan, silloin suomalaiset sais parempia pisteitä ja sen takia suomalaisten pisteiden alaraja ois korkeampi kuin ulkomaalaisten - ei toisinpäin ( siis niin kuin on nyt, ulkomaalaisilla on kovemmat pisteet jo lähtötasolla )

Pisteytyksessä siis ei oteta aikaisempaa kouluhistoriaa huomioon, koska näkyy että Suomessa opiskelleet osaavat vähemmän.

Ei siis loogista sanoa että suomalainen koulutus katsotaan eduksi koska sen laatutaso tiedetään, koska jos laatutaso olisi hyvä se heijastuisi nyt suomalaisten pisteiden alarajassa

Ainoa syys siis voi olla, ettei pisteet ole yhtä hyviä suomalaisilla, koska jos niin olisi dokumentti olisi erilainen

RevealingtheTruth · Post by **RevealingtheTruth** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:31 am

Pursuivant wrote:Because, if you go to Finnish lukio, "everyone knows" what and how you learn, and what the eximia in the report card stands for. So they can give points on that, so far that wit enogh laudatur you don't need to take a test.

Foreigners have foreign degrees from foreignschools which you don't know anything about, so the only way to assess them is byvthe exam only.

INTERNATIONAL STANDARD~All applicants are tested equally and scored individually and NOT scored or given credentials based on their citizenship .....RevealingtheTruth

Beep_Boop · Post by **Beep_Boop** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:29 am

Wow! You guys have exploded in the guy's face. He's actually asking a legitimate question (minus the fairness point).

The entrance exam in Finland can be standardized so that everybody can be judged based on a scoring system that is "fair" for everyone. Being a university, you also want to take into account the student's previous study history.
Well, now you're in a big biiiig trouble. You see, Finnish university have a pretty good idea about the Finnish schooling system, but the same cannot be said about the schooling system in each and every country in the world.

So, assume you're the person responsible for making the decision. Would you go and study every single schooling system in the world and then creating a scaled scoring model that will be applied differently to each of your foreign students depending on their country (and, like in China or Russia, depending on the region)? Or would you simple create a scoring model for the schooling system you already know and a different one for the schooling system you don't know about?

The most economic and fair solution is simply to create two different scales (for the reasons mentioned above). So, yes. I do think it's very fair.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:53 am

adnan wrote:Wow! You guys have exploded in the guy's face. He's actually asking a legitimate question (minus the fairness point).

'Purisuivant' also gave the most essential part of your (as such perfectly fine) answer already. As for OP, he is highly irritating, bitching to one immigrant on the board about racism (he had not mentioned anything about his "race') and as far as I can tell (you give the first impression only once..) is probably not that bright.

By the way, there are THREE posters on this thread that have not posted on any other thread previously. Makes me wonder if somebody has more than one "nick".

[quote ="EternalSelf"]if us finns scored as well in the test as the ones from abroad[/quote]
You do not know how what is the average score in the test for Finns or foreigners.

[quote ="EternalSelf"]there would be a higher standard of score requirement for finns as well.[/quote]
It's true that were there sufficient number of better applicants, the required score for group "B" would go up (it is also very likely true that the best and brightest of the locals don't apply to LAMK, or their English language programs). Now, on the other hand, how much would the group "A" score would go down if there were 100 new foreign applicants that can barely write their name on the paper? Not a bit.

EternalSelf wrote:This graph shows, that finnish people get lower scores in general

There is no graph in the linked document. Even the table has no information about average scores, or about the number of applicants in the "A" and "B" category.

EternalSelf wrote:Nobody is complaining, they are talking about the Scoring

"at this moment i am deeply disappointed in the finnish education system" sounds like complaint to me.

RevealingtheTruth wrote:INTERNATIONAL STANDARD~All applicants are tested equally and scored individually and NOT scored or given credentials based on their citizenship

Nobody is given points for their citizenship. Some are given points for their local highschool (Lukio) certificate /student exam.

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