Living in Finland as a foreigner

[Oho]

...

Perhaps you should take up on your own advice and move to Canada or better yet Tierra Del Fuego if the Antipodes turned out not entirely welcoming.

[angwedh]

Sorry I wasn't calling Finns racists. It's just a fear. Anyone can feel so. And Muslims are hated in some places for ( I don't know ) reason.

Islam oppress women rights. As muslim you will be hated.

[justaguy]

Nice to know that you can't remotely have a debate without resorting to fallacious retorts.

Throwing cold water on a phallacious retort, circa 1830

Did you intentionally misspell 'fallacious?

Sorry I wasn't calling Finns racists. It's just a fear. Anyone can feel so. And Muslims are hated in some places for ( I don't know ) reason.

Islam oppress women rights. As muslim you will be hated.

That's just for starters. There's many other reasons.

[Bavarian]

Did you intentionally misspell 'fallacious?

Not a native English speaker, I presume.

[Piet]

Well sorry if employers tend to hire ones they can understand and employees can understand them. It is not a secret that Finnish language is quite hard, if your English is okayish you are good to go in any English speaking countries. In case your Finnish is same level of okayish, only language teachers can understand you.

I can imagine your response, but this understanding stops totally if the one that has to hire you does not speak any Finnish, he is actually British, but his Boss, the owner of the company requires Finnish.
To be clear, no communication with anyone else than the hiring British person are required for the job and upon asking: why? The British person answers: Yeah I don't know either, My Boss just wants a Finnish speaking person that is fluent in English even-though you don't need Finnish language for the job, everyone else speaks English here anyway ...duh...

Remember that I was mentioning that a lot of job adds have FLUENTLY Finnish as a requirement while this is absolutely not needed for, lets say a postal delivery guy, a truck driver, a mechanical engineer, a car mechanic, in all those cases basic Finnish would do fine..but still the job add lists it as mandatory. That is the hidden discrimination I was referring to.

Another big part of the problem with the Finnish language and for example technical jobs, is the fact that you will never learn your job related language skills in Finnish, without that job... So it is like a circle, you cannot learn the language (part) that you need, anywhere else than on the job (from your colleagues), but you won't get the job without these same skills....You can follow a course for that job where these skills could be learned, but a requirement of these technical courses is this job related language, again a circle... Finland's job market is filled with these kind of endless loops and so excluding a big amount of high skilled workers... (even the TE-office acknowledges this problem)

But there is hope, slowly employers are starting to change their archaic view on immigrant (skilled) workers, however I didn't meet them yet..

...

Perhaps you should take up on your own advice and move to Canada or better yet Tierra Del Fuego if the Antipodes turned out not entirely welcoming.

I wish I could.. Canada I mean, same nature same weather, better economy, more jobs, very friendly people, most speak English and otherwise French and I have Family there. Sadly that solution is not within my possibilities, too much people here that are dependent on me..
But... if I would be a freshly graduated student with no local ties...I would not think twice. too much idiots here that are selling out their beautiful country and its treasures to the highest bidder (and still getting to less for it), but that is another story for another time (thread).

[raskarhu]

While we're at it, people do not pee in every building corner and in every train station elevator in Australia. Nor do they walk along and spit on the ground everywhere they go. Finns really are disgusting. Not even kidding here, I am continually disgusted by the way that Finns behave in public.

And every restaurant toilet in Helsinki is seriously gross. I have pay a euro for using a revolting and grimy shoebox where I don't dare to touch the door? What sort of foul stupidity is this? Not even places like Sokos can keep them clean.

Ok, now I hope we are all finished with these stupid and racist rants about how disgusting certain races, nationalities and religions are. Of the three biggest schools I have attended (all of which had many Muslims) two had a shower stall with spray hose, and one had an actual foot-bathing sink. Perhaps those three schools had half a brain to realise that washing is an integral part of a large proportion of the students' culture and behaviour, and knew it would be stupid to put up signs or complain about people washing in the sink, and thus provided a way for people to wash their feet. It's not the Muslim students' fault that justaguy's school was totally stupid and made no attempt to accommodate their students appropriately.

This thread has turned stupid. OP, come to Finland, forget about the ridiculous arguments over foreigners. You will enjoy your time here and learn so much by experiencing a new culture.

I just want to say: I agree absolutely

[raskarhu]

So my advise: get your study finished here and move to Germany, Holland or Canada, so very much more tolerant there.. and sooo much better job opportunities there too.
If I could, I would do the same..

Bonus points if you get the job there without good Germany, Dutch, English or French skills.

You can get a good job in Holland, Belgium, Germany with just English or with a low level of proficiency in one of the national languages. So yes, give me the bonus points.

[Piet]

So my advise: get your study finished here and move to Germany, Holland or Canada, so very much more tolerant there.. and sooo much better job opportunities there too.
If I could, I would do the same..

Bonus points if you get the job there without good Germany, Dutch, English or French skills.

You can get a good job in Holland, Belgium, Germany with just English or with a low level of proficiency in one of the national languages. So yes, give me the bonus points.

Exactly !!

[Oho]

I am dumbfounded, I truly did not know that fresh graduates from Finnish universities let alone UAS's have such a reputation that only adequate English with as close as makes no difference to no national language is required to land a, presumably cushy, office desk if not a managerial position in Netherlands or Germany, I find that quite astonishing.

That said in the office of about 130 or so, don't have the exact head count, all continents save Africa are represented and unless I am wholly mistaken really none of my foreign colleagues speak particularly good if any Finnish.

[Piet]

I am dumbfounded, I truly did not know that fresh graduates from Finnish universities let alone UAS's have such a reputation that only adequate English with as close as makes no difference to no national language is required to land a, presumably cushy, office desk if not a managerial position in Netherlands or Germany, I find that quite astonishing.

That said in the office of about 130 or so, don't have the exact head count, all continents save Africa are represented and unless I am wholly mistaken really none of my foreign colleagues speak particularly good if any Finnish.

Exaggerating and ripping text out of its context seem a hobby of yours I guess, you post (see above quote) seems to understand that a good job in Netherlands, Germany and Canada for a non Finnish graduated student that speaks good English, equals (and I quote again) :

fresh graduates from Finnish universities let alone UAS's have such a reputation that only adequate English with as close as makes no difference to no national language is required to land a, presumably cushy, office desk if not a managerial position in Netherlands or Germany,

Which brings me to the next wondering fact that you seem to use as an argument here (and I quote again)

I am dumbfounded,.......
....That said in the office of about 130 or so, don't have the exact head count, all continents save Africa are represented and unless I am wholly mistaken really none of my foreign colleagues speak particularly good if any Finnish.

....let me guess...IT related work...won't be long before that is actually outsourced to India or South Africa as well..no I am not a pessimist, I am a realist

But anyway, with a good education and good English skills, you will always find a good job in the Netherlands, Germany and Canada, as mentioned before and at the same time have little to no trouble of the apparent hidden discrimination like here in Finland.

Summary: Finland has a huge mismatch between the available workers and the available jobs, the is a huge surplus of engineers and even more of managers, but at the same time a huge shortage of healthcare personnel.
This mismatch is so bad, that the government decided to import Bulgarian and Spanish healthcare-workers after giving them a speed course of basic Finnish language...while at the same time the country needs to cut on educational funding for its own citizens.... shoot me!!! Which Einstein invented that? Oh those were the European subsidies that made it profitable for the Finnish. Same like the integration of foreigners in Finland that made only other Finnish people more rich and did not result in any measurable jobless immigrants.... but you should all read more Yle News to know things about that...
Foreign investor buy more and more Finnish companies just to break them up and sell in parts and move all production to low wager countries, effectively killing the Hi-Tech industry that once was so great in Finland.

Conclusion regarding the title of this thread:
Living in Finland as a foreigner....is good:
when you have money and don't need a job, Finnish people do almost anything for money so you buy loyalty and "friends".
or if you have a legal gambling company (Finnish are hooked to gambling)
or don't mind living on welfare (you don't smoke and don't drink booze and shop at Lidl ) and have some nice cheap hobbies and like picking mushrooms in the forest.
or if you want to raise Kids in a (still) safe and healthy (for how long?) naturally environment and living on welfare (although that is becoming less and less attractive too, but the same situation is in Germany and Netherlands).
If you are a foreign student with reasonable funding hence the education is still (mostly) free.
If you speak and read good Finnish language and you are either a Doctor or a Teacher or a Dentist.

So take your pick...I surely did

[Oho]

But anyway, with a good education and good English skills, you will always find a good job in the Netherlands, Germany and Canada, as mentioned before and at the same time have little to no trouble of the apparent hidden discrimination like here in Finland.

Let me get this straight you are talking about Finnish university degree right... I think the odds are good you really do not know what the hell you are talking about, well the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, however fact of the matter is foreign graduates tend to have more difficulty finding jobs all over the world...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Foreign+graduates+ ... +in+Canada

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=foreign+graduates+ ... in+germany
.....
Even you should get the picture, in the cold light of day foreign graduates have harder time at it than native pretty much regardless of country and I sincerely doubt the problems are less for foreign graduates whose degree is also foreign....

[Piet]

Let me get this straight you are talking about Finnish university degree right... I think the odds are good you really do not know what the hell you are talking about, well the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Fact of the matter is foreign graduates tend to have more difficulty finding jobs all over the world...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Foreign+graduates+ ... +in+Canada

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=foreign+graduates+ ... in+germany
.....
Even you should get the picture, in the cold light of day foreign graduates have harder time at it than native pretty much regardless of country and I sincerely doubt the problems are less for foreign graduates whose degree is also foreign....

Of course you are right that foreigners always all over the world have more trouble finding work than natives, but compared to Finland (because that is what we are talking her about) it is easy, trust me, I experienced it in several countries myself and that is also the reason I only mention 3 other countries where the "grass" as you call it, is actually "greener" compared to the rest of the world, given the restriction of not mastering the native language fluently like a native but just plain English.

Because that is what we are talking about.

I have no doubt that finding a suitable job for a "just graduated" anywhere will be easy, the contrary. It is just so much more difficult in Finland where the economy sucks for at least 6 years, add a little hidden discrimination on top of that and a little xenophobia makes it slightly impossible to get a decent job matching your skills. And don't even try to get a job below your skill set (S-market, bus driver, garbage collector at Vantaa Airport), they don't want you there either... those jobs they will gladly give to our African immigrant brothers and sisters that came here without any form of education...they have special, job specific, courses for these immigrants which cost the tax payer here a fortune and benefit mostly the ones providing the courses.

For your benefit but also that of others that do not read Finnish, something recent to read in English:
http://yle.fi/uutiset/somalias_lone_fem ... es/8218907

And they know this sooo long already:
http://yle.fi/uutiset/immigrant_jobless ... ns/6815742

And even when someone writes in the newspaper about it, (proving my point with Netherlands)
http://yle.fi/uutiset/one_year_on_contr ... al/6988470

And another one for you, making my point:
http://yle.fi/uutiset/education_no_guar ... ts/5755600

And there is much much more from the Finnish news.

[Oho]

Of course you are right that foreigners always all over the world have more trouble finding work than natives, but compared to Finland (because that is what we are talking her about) it is easy, trust me...

Sorry fresh out.....

[justaguy]

-Ridiculously stupid and nonsensical post full of incorrect information, stupid assumptions and a bunch of smileys to hide the fact that it's all just a stupid rant from a guy who's new here and yet thinks he knows everything-

Nice job at spending all that time giving out false information. Also @

Of course you are right that foreigners always all over the world have more trouble finding work than natives, but compared to Finland (because that is what we are talking her about) it is easy, trust me...

Just when I thought that tl;dr rant of yours couldn't get any dumber.

I am dumbfounded, I truly did not know that fresh graduates from Finnish universities let alone UAS's have such a reputation that only adequate English with as close as makes no difference to no national language is required to land a, presumably cushy, office desk if not a managerial position in Netherlands or Germany, I find that quite astonishing.

That said in the office of about 130 or so, don't have the exact head count, all continents save Africa are represented and unless I am wholly mistaken really none of my foreign colleagues speak particularly good if any Finnish.

Most fresh graduates from UAE or Uni are morons who, whilst they may have graduated from Uni, still don't know a @#$% thing about this country. 2/3.5 years later. You can't blame them from taking stupid advice from their friends that "It's so easy to find a job here". They probably all lied that they were employed on the first day and then had to stick with that for the remainder of the studies. Or they probably think that making €6 an hour in a pizza shop counts.

It's not the Uni's fault. On my orientation day my uni said that it wasn't easy to get a job here and that everyone should study Finnish really hard alongside their studies if they are planning on living and working here.

[Marsh04]

Finland is a great country in many ways but that's a fact that racism and xenophobia is more prevalent here than the countries with longer/richer history of immigration and interaction with other cultures . I hope things will change with time.