Cash Control within EU ?

Samer2010 · Post by **Samer2010** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:27 pm

Hi Forum,

According to: (http://goo.gl/QBSzk), It says: "If you plan to enter or leave the EU with € 10 000 or more in cash (or its equivalent in other currencies) you must declare it to the customs authorities". This is very clear !

But, My question: Is there any cash control law within EU itself? I mean, Can someone travel with € 20 000 or more in cash from Finland to Germany without declaring? Or, This has to be declared too?

Any clear link/source about cash control within EU ?

Thanks !

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Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:05 pm

The EU allows having cash controls also for intra EU travellers.
http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/cap ... dex_en.htm

Finland does not use those, Germany is satisfied if you answer truthfully when asked ( http://www.zoll.de/EN/Private-individua ... _node.html ). Other countries have other rules (France apparently wants you to declare all transfers above 10 000 euros)
http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/cu ... dex_en.htm

sky2 · Post by **sky2** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:05 pm

Samer2010 wrote:Hi Forum,
Can someone travel with € 20 000 or more in cash from Finland to Germany without declaring? Or, This has to be declared too?

Why you'd even want to do that? It would be easily considered as money laundering and there are many laws in EU for it. Also it's very unsafe, you can very easily transfer via bank.

Samer2010 · Post by **Samer2010** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:52 am

Rip wrote:The EU allows having cash controls also for intra EU travellers. http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/cap ... dex_en.htm Finland does not use those

Thanks Rip for the link about Germany where I read about the declaration on request, But, I didn't find any clear info states that "Finland does not use those" ?

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:07 am

Samer2010 wrote:
Rip wrote:The EU allows having cash controls also for intra EU travellers. http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/cap ... dex_en.htm Finland does not use those
Thanks Rip for the link about Germany where I read about the declaration on request, But, I didn't find any clear info states that "Finland does not use those" ?

You can check for Finnish "tulli" pages, that they do cash control at the Schengen border (only). Formally according to "tullilaki" they can search you and your wallet and ask question, so perhaps we're actually in the same situation as in Germany. Anyway, there is no obligation to declare anything if you're not asked anything.

You don't often explicit statements that you don't need to do something or something is not banned, like you don't find it in the law book that witchcraft isn't illegal anymore, expect implicitly that there is no statute criminalizing it.

(and I agree with the opinion that I holding tens of thousands euros in cash does not seem wise or safe, but not because of Tulli.)

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:08 pm

sky2 wrote:
Why you'd even want to do that? It would be easily considered as money laundering and there are many laws in EU for it. Also it's very unsafe, you can very easily transfer via bank.

Transferring large sums of money intra EU (eg using SEPA) would trigger alerts that the person has a foreign bank account albeit in the EU which may lead Vero to believe that person has a foreign source of undeclared income. In this case the money is leaving Finland but i guess other countries have similar controls.

I agree there is no "good" reason to transport cash inside the EU.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:26 pm

Rosamunda wrote:
sky2 wrote:
Why you'd even want to do that? It would be easily considered as money laundering and there are many laws in EU for it. Also it's very unsafe, you can very easily transfer via bank.
Transferring large sums of money intra EU (eg using SEPA) would trigger alerts that the person has a foreign bank account albeit in the EU which may lead Vero to believe that person has a foreign source of undeclared income. In this case the money is leaving Finland but i guess other countries have similar controls.

It could trigger alerts, but I highly doubt it. Wouldn't eg. car dealers deal with that kind of money regularly? I do remember that it was recommended to pay with cash when buying car from DE, but that was pre SEPA recommendation iirc.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:53 pm

Car dealers have company bank accounts. I was thinking more of personal bank account monitoring.

Why would there be sniffer dogs at the airport looking for cash if online transfers are not monitored? It wouldn't make sense. But like I said (maybe it wasn't so clear) I don't think Finland controls money leaving Finland EU intra-muros but I assume other countries eg Denmark, France etc are tracking amounts that come in to personal accounts. Just as Finland tracks payments coming into personal bank accounts from outside the country.

It's so easy to set up flags, why wouldn't they do it? But I'm only guessing. i have no idea what obligations Finnish banks have to report to eg the tax authorities.

dave071061 · Post by **dave071061** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:20 pm

Upphew wrote:
Rosamunda wrote:
sky2 wrote:
Why you'd even want to do that? It would be easily considered as money laundering and there are many laws in EU for it. Also it's very unsafe, you can very easily transfer via bank.
Transferring large sums of money intra EU (eg using SEPA) would trigger alerts that the person has a foreign bank account albeit in the EU which may lead Vero to believe that person has a foreign source of undeclared income. In this case the money is leaving Finland but i guess other countries have similar controls.
It could trigger alerts, but I highly doubt it. Wouldn't eg. car dealers deal with that kind of money regularly? I do remember that it was recommended to pay with cash when buying car from DE, but that was pre SEPA recommendation iirc.

It does trigger alerts, I have on a couple of instances had large amounts transferred for the UK to Finland most recently this June and in each case my bank in Finland have rung me and asked what it is for. They explain that they have to have an explanation ready should the customs or tax authorities query it.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:26 pm

Triggers over 9000 euros IIRC, but that was before they upped the ante.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:46 pm

dave071061 wrote:
It does trigger alerts, I have on a couple of instances had large amounts transferred for the UK to Finland most recently this June and in each case my bank in Finland have rung me and asked what it is for. They explain that they have to have an explanation ready should the customs or tax authorities query it.

Me too, but it was when we sold our house in France so the amount was a bit more than 9,000€! Our bank (Nordea) called and asked for info. I can't remember if Vero called too.

Piet · Post by **Piet** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:54 pm

Rosamunda wrote: Why would there be sniffer dogs at the airport looking for cash if online transfers are not monitored?

Those dogs are there for the Dutch travellers that think you can take marijuana with you into Finland.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:42 pm

No... there are drugs dogs and there are money dogs. Different training.

Piet · Post by **Piet** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:55 pm

Rosamunda wrote:No... there are drugs dogs and there are money dogs. Different training.

I really wonder if the dogs smells the difference between 40 bills of 500 or 40 bills of 5 euro's, the first is illegal the second not....for that matter 40 bills of 100 or 200 is still legal...
So does the dog smell the difference between 17 and 21 bills of 500?

So this sounds a bit unbelievable to me.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:05 am

I would not be too surprised if there if there were some trace chemical in the larger denomination bills put there just because of its smell. I am not saying there is, just that I would not be surprised.

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