Painting Job - Small Apartment.

Madan · Post by **Madan** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:23 pm

Hello people,

I will be moving to a new apartment in ESPOO, receiving the keys on the 23rd. I am in need of someone to help me paint the interior, small living room and one wall in each bedroom. I can pay 20 euros an hour. Please message me at muna_adan@hotmail.com if you're interested.

Kiitos!

**Sponsor:**

FinnGuyHelsinki · Post by **FinnGuyHelsinki** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:14 am

Please note that legally you'll then be an employer, responsible for employer payments and even more importantly insurance for the worker (otherwise if the employee gets hurt, you'll be paying the bills out of your own pocket).

Edit: corrected a typo.

Madan · Post by **Madan** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:33 pm

Oh wow, that didn't even cross my mind. Thanks for that info @FinnGuyHelsinki

cors187 · Post by **cors187** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:11 pm

you can pay per hour, 1000,s of jobs each day are negotiated per hour(invoiced hours), normally plus vat.Worker needs to have a business number.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:47 pm

Buying service and hiring someone are different things. And not probably clear for natives either in all cases. In first case service provider handles taxes and all that red tape, in latter the employer deals with them.

cors187 · Post by **cors187** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:28 am

The simple rule is registration or "permission to pay".
A company might be registered as a company but it still needs to be registered as an employer paying salaries.

heres a quick example
In ytj we do a company search, i just used painting as a search name
https://tietopalvelu.ytj.fi/yrityshaku. ... elikoodi=3

I clicked on a random company or individual etc

As you can see the company or individual needed to
1.register the company or individual
2.register as a tax identity
3.register to pay taxes in prepayment form
4.register an identity liable to VAT rules
5. register as an identity liable to employer/employee payment rules

Registrations in force
Register Status As of
1.Trade register Registered 03/18/2014
2.Tax Administration Registered 03/18/2014
3.Prepayment register Registered 02/25/2014
4.Value added tax-liability VAT-liable for business activity 04/01/2014
5.Employer register Registered 04/01/2014

to pay a salary to someone you need to be employer registered .

https://tietopalvelu.ytj.fi/yritystiedo ... 78524ACD5F

007 · Post by **007** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:35 am

Out of interest, do you need a paperwork (eg insurance or tax etc) when asking for a help of a friend in moving in/out of apartments?

cors187 · Post by **cors187** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:56 pm

Finns can tell you about a tax loop well used.
Its requirements are sketchy to me but its like a friend comes around and helps you do something and you reward them with cash and dont take no for an answer.
Its tax free
Finns????

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:05 pm

007 wrote:Out of interest, do you need a paperwork (eg insurance or tax etc) when asking for a help of a friend in moving in/out of apartments?

Yes, if you compensate for the work.

cors187 wrote:Finns can tell you about a tax loop well used.

I don't consider there to be a loop hole.

cors187 wrote: Its requirements are sketchy to me but its like a friend comes around and helps you do something and you reward them with cash and dont take no for an answer.
Its tax free

If there is no expectation of a compensation, gifts with small value after the work are acceptable.

https://www.vero.fi/fi-FI/Syventavat_ve ... erovapaata

"Työ on tehty vastikkeetta silloin, kun sen tekemisestä ei ole sovittu korvauksen suorittamisesta rahana tai muussa muodossa. Työ on vastikkeetonta myös, jos työn suorittaja kieltäytyy ottamasta vastaan työsuorituksen saajan hänelle mahdollisesti myöhemmin tarjoamaa vastiketta. Vastaanotettua arvoltaan vähäistä tavaralahjaa ei kuitenkaan pidetä veronalaisena vastikkeena, vaan hyviin tapoihin kuuluvana kiitollisuuden osoituksena."

What I do with my friends is that they will come to help me move and I am willing to go help them if they ask. I will also offer them beers etc after the work.

cors187 · Post by **cors187** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:28 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
cors187 wrote:Finns can tell you about a tax loop well used.
I don't consider there to be a loop hole.

Its a brain loophole , everyone knows your buying beers,thats why they come.
More importantly its an ethical loophole to still pretend the system is spotless and no one did anything to add some stains around the place.
Its well used.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:29 pm

cors187 wrote: Its a brain loophole , everyone knows your buying beers,thats why they come.

The beers cost me some euros. It would in no way suffice to unknown people to do the work.

cors187 wrote: More importantly its an ethical loophole to still pretend the system is spotless and no one did anything to add some stains around the place.
Its well used.

The Nordic taxation models depend on the willingness of people to pay taxes and on the fact normal workers don't themselves transfer money directly to vero. No-one in this thread implied and neither do my friends think that the system is spotless. I don't think it makes sense to start taxing neighbor/friend help.

cors187 · Post by **cors187** » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:45 pm

betelgeuse wrote: I don't think it makes sense to start taxing neighbor/friend help.

True, but only i presented the info to show immigrants (who are being whitewashed by Finnish rhetoric), that the locals have solutions that are used daily without guilt.So all good.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:14 am

Interestingly no one has offered to do the job for 20€/h! Or maybe they have sent a PM since that would be less visible I guess.

To the OP... If you find somebody to do this work then they should invoice you (ie the painter is self.employed). You will pay tax (VAT) but home improvements are tax deductible. Remember to check with your landlord it is OK to paint the flat, he/she might ask to see the invoices or choose the contractor. Or might refuse.

If you pay someone cash to do this without an invoice, you should be aware that you are committing tax evasion (VAT). You also need to know that it is not unusual for people to inform on their neighbours if they think someone is hiring traders who are not registered in Finland and/or not paying tax. (This happens everywhere: Years ago I worked in a tax office in the UK and the phone never stopped ringing.... and it's easier nowadays, because it's all online)

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