Luomu - Organic -- ?

[harryc]

Opinions on whether the 'Luomu' stuff is really worth the very high premium re price?

(I, personally, have found the 'taste' part of the game has varied all over the map.)

I would be interested here if people truly believe (or better, KNOW) there are health benefits.

My understanding is that EU 'food safety' regulations are very high these days - and that all products undergo regular testing (Evira, etc.). I have also understood that there are no standards for anyone wanting to label their goods as 'luomu.' I say 'I understand' - but am in no way SURE about these matters.

[Upphew]

Opinions on whether the 'Luomu' stuff is really worth the very high premium re price?

(I, personally, have found the 'taste' part of the game has varied all over the map.)

I would be interested here if people truly believe (or better, KNOW) there are health benefits.

My understanding is that EU 'food safety' regulations are very high these days - and that all products undergo regular testing (Evira, etc.). I have also understood that there are no standards for anyone wanting to label their goods as 'luomu.' I say 'I understand' - but am in no way SURE about these matters.

*giggles* EU and Finland in particular and no standards?
http://www.evira.fi/portal/en/about+evi ... roduction/
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... V%3Af86000

[harryc]

Yes - I have looked at those 'regulations' - but I have not been seeing any 'certification verified' labels - etc. Luomu and Organic are plastered all over all kinds of stuff - fresh and 'bottled/canned, etc. But I am not seeing any documentation or certification - and have yet to see any coverage of those selling phony stuff.

But - overall - my question is if people are convinced there are really any HEALTH benefits as Evira and EU have set pretty high standards on the safety of ALL foods sold in the EU. (This - with the assumption that the food would be certified and not phony)

[Upphew]

Yes - I have looked at those 'regulations' - but I have not been seeing any 'certification verified' labels - etc. Luomu and Organic are plastered all over all kinds of stuff - fresh and 'bottled/canned, etc. But I am not seeing any documentation or certification - and have yet to see any coverage of those selling phony stuff.

"The obligatory Euro-leaf must always be accompanied by the code number of the control body. For example, products controlled by Evira, the Finnish Food Safety Authority, show the code FI-EKO-201."
If you want to see a certificate: https://palvelut2.evira.fi/luomuasiakirjahaku/haku.php

But - overall - my question is if people are convinced there are really any HEALTH benefits as Evira and EU have set pretty high standards on the safety of ALL foods sold in the EU. (This - with the assumption that the food would be certified and not phony)

Meh. Maybe with animal stuff and even then it is the animal's health, not mine, that benefits.

[Beep_Boop]

You have a certain product with a certain price, and then a different product with a different price. If you think it's healthier, then buy it; if not, then don't!
I personally go out of my way to pick the non-organic stuff even if, by some stroke of luck they were more expensive. I also look for the cage-raised chicken eggs, and no-daylight pork.

[harryc]

You have a certain product with a certain price, and then a different product with a different price. If you think it's healthier, then buy it; if not, then don't!

So you think the price alone tells you what the product is?

[Beep_Boop]

So you think the price alone tells you what the product is?

Excellent logical deduction skills. Obviously, that's 100% what I said and meant!

To accommodate lithospheres of all measurements, I'll add a footnote.

You have a certain product* with a certain price**, and then a different product* with a different price**. If you think it's healthier, then buy it; if not, then don't.

* and all the properties associated with said product like nutritional value; country of origin; expiry date; method of manufacturing; etc. , including your knowledge of such properties, and with the contextual knowledge and life experience you've gathered from buying and consuming that product and/or similar products
** which is not the only property of said product

[harryc]

I indeed noticed your attempt at sarcasm - but did not find it that 'funny' - and threw - by way of sarcasm - the question back at you. So who is lacking the talents of logical deduction?

[Beep_Boop]

Some fuse definitely needs replacement. The first comment was completely genuine. I always actively avoid luomu and other hippy products, regardless of the price.

Since you're still not getting it, I'll repeat until you do, mainly because I'm interested
It's a product X compared to product Y. You choose the product that fits your requirements. If it's luomu or it's chicken raised in the White House, or cows grown by ISIS.. you pick and choose the one you want and pay for it. So asking if people think it's actually healthier is completely useless.

[harryc]

My question was meant to be inquiring if anyone had any real KNOWLEDGE about whether there were differences re health - not their perceptions.

[Beep_Boop]

My question was meant to be inquiring if anyone had any real KNOWLEDGE about whether there were differences re health - not their perceptions.

Right.

I would be interested here if people truly believe (or better, KNOW) there are health benefits.

You came to FinlandForum to get actual knowledge (not people's perception) about a scientific topic rather than searching massive online repositories of peer-reviewed journals.
Which university gave you your PhD again?

http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/120-a458/
http://journals.cambridge.org/download. ... 5f6aebbcf2
http://www.emeraldinsight.com/doi/abs/1 ... 0210434570
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/ ... finds.html

[tuttu]

luomu/organic/bio is a very clearly defined specification, and not something a company can just plaster on their product (that would be illegal actually).
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luomutuote

unfortunately, it is rather common practice to use keywords and logos that are not always easy to distinguish, or even silly statements like "Contains natural ingredients". That one always makes me laugh. But I'm sure it can confuse more gullible consumers.

[harryc]

You came to FinlandForum to get actual knowledge (not people's perception) about a scientific topic rather than searching massive online repositories of peer-reviewed journals.
Which university gave you your PhD again?

http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/120-a458/
http://journals.cambridge.org/download. ... 5f6aebbcf2
http://www.emeraldinsight.com/doi/abs/1 ... 0210434570
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/ ... finds.html

I was not interested in writing another doctoral dissertation - just getting some 'quick' reaction if someone had an answer straight off "rather than searching massive online repositories of peer-reviewed journals."

I certainly know how to do research - but I also know how to use time. I am sure you could write patronizing comments to 95% of the original posts here that questions could be answered from each poster with sufficient research via google and library services.

And above all - THIS IS A FORUM!! - and bringing up subjects has the benefit (and purpose) of eliciting a discussion as different people will have found different info and have different experiences - VOILÀ - A FORUM!!!!!

[Rosamunda]

Opinions on whether the 'Luomu' stuff is really worth the very high premium re price?

I would turn this on its head. My own feeling is that "cheap" food is not sustainable.

Take fresh milk - the farmers cannot survive with prices being squeezed as they are today. Dairy farmers will quit and young people will refuse to go into agriculture: the local food industry will collapse.

Take beef - demand for cheap food just encourages unsustainable business practice such as clearing rainforest tó provide pasture for beef cattle.

On the other hand, I'm not a big fans of labels. Everything we produce is "luomu" but we don't put stickers on our honey or on our sheep or our veggies. The people we sell to know what we do, they know our stuff and that's good enough for them. Just about everyone who bought lamb off us last year has pre-ordered for this year - even though we are more expensive than Prisma or Lidl.

There are more and more people who make sustainable choices and, overall, their food bills are no higher than those of people who eat the bog-standard supermarket brands. Eating processed food is more expensive than eating organic fresh food. For example, a bowl of breakfast cereal eg Coco pops - is way more expensive than a bowl of organic oat porridge.

[harryc]

I agree with all your comments - and, as for myself, I abhor processed foods -primarily because they have a horrible taste in almost all cases - unless one allows for the occasional availability of biomass with no taste. (plus processed are more expensive).

But I do still have the general question of whether health-endangering foods are allowed to be sold in te EU (in the sense that if one bought 'organic' they could avoid them). Not to be considered here are the fact that nitrates and nitrites are still 'legal' - and over-consumption of sugar (including syrups and honeys), fats and oils, possibly red meat - is unhealthy whether they be 'regular' or 'organic.'