appeal or new application for residence pernit

ndislove · Post by **ndislove** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:47 pm

hello members,could i get some advice from those who have ideas?
i made my application of residence permit with my boyfriend by then that we were planning to get married,after a while thr relationship could not work out and i moved from his house before the decision was made.we met when i was pregnant and now my baby is almost one year.the biological father is a fin citizen and we are not together though the paterniy has been confirmed and his paperwork is also with the (lastenvanoja),
after i moved out,i met another man whom accepted my baby and he loves us both and we moved in ...got engauged and planning for a wedding.
i got response from imigration that my application was rejected that is negative on the grounds that i didnt marry the man and without work (i informed them that i left the relationship becouse of personal resasons).when we went to pick the letter the lady officer said i could appeal within one month and she kept my passport.
my question is....becouse i am not with the first man anymore,is there need of appealing as instructed?,or can i appeal with my baby status and fiancee,or it would not help..or can i make new application with my fiancee and baby-
i gave the letter to my lawyer and i just wanted some idea before he make the appeal.or wht options do i have fr instance if we get married,and my baby permit comes.
Thanks and any idea would be of help.
Ndislove.

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leisl · Post by **leisl** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:23 am

The first application was based on you being the family member of a Finn (the baby's father). It was rejected because you are not with him. So you are not his family member. The law was applied correctly according to the info you gave them when you applied.

But your baby is a Finnish citizen. Your baby won't get a "permit". Because your baby is a Finn. He/she doesn't need a permit to be here.

If you appeal it will still say sth like: "you are still not the family member of the father, you do not have money to support yourself, the law was applied correctly, go away". It will be a waste of money and be rejected again unless you advise them that your circumstances have changed. You were supposed to advise Migri as soon as the baby was born. I guess you did not, or maybe they didn't yet have parental proof that baby is a Finnish citizen. Now it's a bit late since the decision has come back negative. Ask your lawyer if you should update your info or just make a new application (guardian of a child under 18 years of age). http://www.migri.fi/moving_to_finland_t ... n/guardian

ndislove · Post by **ndislove** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:07 pm

thanks for the response, but may be i need to make it clear that ...the rejected application was made by my former boyfriend whom we did not get married with.we stayed for a few months and after i delivered the relationship could not work,due to my personal reasons...first he didnt like my son..the rest are alot...he is not the biological father though the biological father with DNA TEST is also a citizen...
and my baby paper work is also still with the lastenvanoja and he doesnt have social security number yet.
so am simpliy asking that would you advice that i make new applications on the family ties or can i appeal.
would they still make a decistion on the grounds that i am not with the man i made my application with.
the lawyer advised me that we need to appeal on the grounds of my baby and new relationship but i am not so sure and i am disturbed about making an appeal becouse to my understanding they will still make adecision of No becouse i am not with the man who made the application and of course the baby is not his.
hope i am clear,kindly help me unnderstand

leisl · Post by **leisl** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:01 pm

Ok. But it makes no difference who the father is. You don't live with the guy you applied with anymore. Rejected = correct.
You don't live with the baby's father. Rejected = correct.
Baby is a Finn. You can get a residence permit based on being the family member of a Finn.
Who cares about the third man.
Do it based on the baby. The baby is not going anywhere.

Ask your lawyer if you should update your info or just make a new application (guardian of a child under 18 years of age). http://www.migri.fi/moving_to_finland_t ... n/guardian

ndislove · Post by **ndislove** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:40 pm

thanks lots,
when i contacted the lawyer and asked for options between appealing or new application he said we appeal...so then would confirm to him to appeal...and i hope all goes well,nt sure how long that wld take but...wld inform other members how it goes....
thanks

ndislove · Post by **ndislove** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:42 pm

leisil wht would be your opinion..appealing with the baby or make new application?

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:14 am

An appeal based on changed circumstances is possible but will take a long time. It could very well be that the court of appeal recognize the new situation and refers the case back to the lower court for a new decision.
A new application is probably the fastest.

leisl · Post by **leisl** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:12 pm

rinso wrote:An appeal based on changed circumstances is possible but will take a long time. It could very well be that the court of appeal recognize the new situation and refers the case back to the lower court for a new decision.
A new application is probably the fastest.

I was also thinking this. And if she is not still with the same guy by the time the appeal goes through, it might be rejected and delayed yet again.

Do you trust the lawyer ndislove. Maybe they want to appeal because it takes longer and they get more money from you!

You don't need a lawyer to make a new application. You have proof the baby is a Finn, this sounds like a simple application now, just you and the baby would be in the papers. But you have to remember. We are not lawyers. It is just our opinion.

ndislove · Post by **ndislove** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:37 pm

thanks lots beautifull people...i will make new application.and i would let you all know how everything would go...
blessed sunday.

ndislove · Post by **ndislove** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:01 pm

Always full of questions when you are in problem,
i am just curious to know,when should i put or submit the new application?after the 30 days appeal period expired or before,secondly they are having my passport would i ask it to make the application or how does it go?and after submitting the application would they give me back my passport?.
any guidance please,
leisl..

leisl · Post by **leisl** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:20 pm

That I do not know. Betelgeuse might know.
Or you can ask Migri. You might not need the passport back to make a new application. Since they already have your details.

ndislove · Post by **ndislove** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:22 am

Leisl...am still on your neck and others.I had contacts with the lawyer and I told him to advise me on making new application,and he said the letter had two parts,expaltion that is deportation after the 30 day's of appeal is expired and the second part is refused permit...so he said he has to make appeal for the expulsion then u make new application.
Now my question is,what is the need of appealing and new application at the same time.all this needs money.
Can't I just ignore the expulsion part and apply,wld they ...the police still come to me or ask why I have nt left the country after submitting the application..
Any idea please.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:23 am

Now my question is,what is the need of appealing and new application at the same time.all this needs money.
Can't I just ignore the expulsion part and apply

Having an appeal and a new application at the same time will create confusion. They probably won't start with the new application before the final appeal decision is made. If the appeal is denied, the new application (based on the same information) will also be denied. (making the combination of appeal and new application rather useless)
If you don't appeal, but start a new application immediately the process will be faster (and cheaper).
Normally they won't expel you if you have an appeal or new application running. So you have to make sure you apply within this 30 day appeal period.

so he said he has to make appeal for the expulsion then u make new application.

And charge you for the extra work.

For a new application you don't need a layer, you can do it yourself.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:47 am

ndislove wrote:Leisl...am still on your neck and others.I had contacts with the lawyer and I told him to advise me on making new application,and he said the letter had two parts,expaltion that is deportation after the 30 day's of appeal is expired and the second part is refused permit...so he said he has to make appeal for the expulsion then u make new application.
Now my question is,what is the need of appealing and new application at the same time.all this needs money.
Can't I just ignore the expulsion part and apply,wld they ...the police still come to me or ask why I have nt left the country after submitting the application..
Any idea please.

This actually sounds fairly reasonable, if understood it right. A new application (which is basically on new grounds; same category but different family member) is faster than appeal. Then on the other hand, yes you could be deported if make no appeal. After all, while I think in many cases the Finnish system is overly lenient, it does not work so that you could avoid deportation after a legally valid final decision (= one that has not been appealed in due time in this case) on the matter by always just submitting a new fresh application.

I assume the lawyer knows his stuff. Appealing against the deportation order and submitting a new application sounds a reasonable enough combination to me.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:41 pm

After all, while I think in many cases the Finnish system is overly lenient, it does not work so that you could avoid deportation after a legally valid final decision (= one that has not been appealed in due time in this case) on the matter by always just submitting a new fresh application.

In this case she has a 1yo baby which is a Finnish citizen. I find it highly unlikely that they will deport the mother and let the baby stay or deport both.

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