2 Questions about employment law ?

[Samer2010]

Hello Forum

I have two questions about employment law, and they are:

1) During the trial/probation period in the first four months, Is the employee allowed to terminate his/her employment with the employer and leave at least give a short notice of a couple of days as a professional manners? Or, Is the employee obligated to give the full notice period as stated on the contract (I thought this article becomes effective only after the trial/probation period has passed)?

2) Assuming that an employee has terminated his/her employment during the trial/probation period in the first four months, Is this employee legally eligible/entitle to certificate of employment for those dew months he has worked for that employer?

3) Any inputs or advice regarding these matters? Please, Share !

[Rip]

Also the employee can terminate the contract during the trial period. You are entitled to a work certificate.

[betelgeuse]

1) During the trial/probation period in the first four months, Is the employee allowed to terminate his/her employment with the employer and leave at least give a short notice of a couple of days as a professional manners? Or, Is the employee obligated to give the full notice period as stated on the contract (I thought this article becomes effective only after the trial/probation period has passed)?

There are two ways to terminate during trial period.

1) cancellation: effective immediately. However, note that this can't be done for any cause:

During the trial period, the employment contract may be cancelled by either party. The employment contract may not, however, be cancelled on the grounds referred to in chapter 2, section 2, subsection 1, or on grounds which are otherwise inappropriate with regard to the purpose of the trial period.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 010055.pdf

2) by notice: the employee does not need any cause but must give the notice agreed

[Samer2010]

Hi again,

Thanks Rip.

Thanks betelgeuse, I read the quote and it is extremely super vagu, and this makes me asking:

When you qrote: "note that this can't be done for any cause" - What do you mean?

When you wrote: "2) by notice: the employee does not need any cause but must give the notice agreed" - What do you mean?

It is still trial/probation period and usually such notice period articles become effective only after the trial/probation period has passed. In other words, After 4 months, The employee must stick and follow the notice period, But, Before that s/he can leave right away !

Am I missing something? Because everything you betelgeuse wrote confused me completely !

[Rip]

When you qrote: "note that this can't be done for any cause" - What do you mean?

There is apparently some court case that getting a better salary offer from elsewhere is not a proper reason to terminate a contract on trial period. Better to say you found the job unsatisfactory or something like that.

[betelgeuse]

Thanks betelgeuse, I read the quote and it is extremely super vagu, and this makes me asking:

When you qrote: "note that this can't be done for any cause" - What do you mean?

That as Rip said there are limitations on when you can cancel the contract during the trial period. The law quote is vague because practicalities are left to case law. If you want advice for a specific situation, you should ask your union lawyers. They should be educated in case law.

When you wrote: "2) by notice: the employee does not need any cause but must give the notice agreed" - What do you mean?

It is still trial/probation period and usually such notice period articles become effective only after the trial/probation period has passed. In other words, After 4 months, The employee must stick and follow the notice period, But, Before that s/he can leave right away !

Your confusion stems from the fact that the above is not correct. Notice period articles are effective from the first day of employment.

When you qrote: "note that this can't be done for any cause" - What do you mean?

There is apparently some court case that getting a better salary offer from elsewhere is not a proper reason to terminate a contract on trial period. Better to say you found the job unsatisfactory or something like that.

Exactly. In this case one should give notice instead of misrepresenting the reasons. Parties can reach a mutual agreement to waive the notice period.

[Beep_Boop]

Parties can reach a mutual agreement to waive the notice period.

and I highly recommend that OP goes this route. Talk to the manger/HR (whatever responsible person) about the termination of employment. At the same time, don't fully reveal your reasons. If you're getting more money somewhere else, don't flat out say it, not only for legal reasons but for professional reasons as well. The important part is to talk to your employer in a professional manner and reach an agreement.

As an example: I had an unusual situation in one workplace where the employer felt that we should end the contract but they didn't have the possibility to accommodate the whole notice period. So we agreed that they'd pay me extra double salary for the last month as a performance bonus in exchange for me waiving my right to the notice period. The point is that agreements to address unusual situations can be reached.

[Samer2010]

@Rip and Any other volunteers

Is betelgeuse legally accurate regarding: "Notice period articles are effective from the first day of employment." ?

Any legal references supports or negates betelgeuse's quote?

I found: "http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset ... 010055.pdf" which it says nothing at all as betelgeuse wrote in both "Trial Period" not "Notice Periods" sections !!!

I would greatly appreciate your inputs !

Thank you !

[Rip]

Is betelgeuse legally accurate regarding: "Notice period articles are effective from the first day of employment." ?

Unless specifically stated otherwise in the law, all the articles are of course valid from the beginning to end of employment. Within trial period there is two ways for an employee to leave a job. By giving a notice or by trial period rules.

[Samer2010]

Maybe I got up on the wrong side of bed today, But, I am having a truly hard time understanding the vague text of betelgeuse and the vaguer comments by Rip.

Please, Do not get me wrong - I have a great deal of respect for both of you and I appreciate your time and knowledge that you put into this forum, But, Could you provide any legal reference that support your words?

http://www.guidetoworkinginfinland.fi/E30/employment

http://www.ilo.org/ifpdial/information- ... /index.htm

http://www.te-services.fi/te/en/jobseek ... rialperiod

http://www.tem.fi/en/work/labour_legisl ... t_contract

https://www.tem.fi/files/40528/Tyosopim ... 082014.pdf

None of these references above suggest that employer nor employee has to give a notice period to terminate an employment during trial period - As a matter of fact, It is the first time in my entire life to hear about a notice period during the trial period.

[JK_Ironak]

I don't know if this helps, but my contract directly states that notice time for quitting/being fired is one day during first 4 months (the trial period), and after the trial period ends it is one month. Yours says nothing about that?

[betelgeuse]

Maybe I got up on the wrong side of bed today, But, I am having a truly hard time understanding the vague text of betelgeuse and the vaguer comments by Rip.

Please, Do not get me wrong - I have a great deal of respect for both of you and I appreciate your time and knowledge that you put into this forum, But, Could you provide any legal reference that support your words?

Chapter 3.4.

http://www.oikeus.fi/hovioikeudet/helsi ... timaki.pdf

I have no interest in spending the time to translate it.

I don't know if this helps, but my contract directly states that notice time for quitting/being fired is one day during first 4 months (the trial period), and after the trial period ends it is one month. Yours says nothing about that?

Does your field have a collective bargaining agreement? Often the notice periods are defined there (probably without the possibility to deviate).

[JK_Ironak]

I don't know if this helps, but my contract directly states that notice time for quitting/being fired is one day during first 4 months (the trial period), and after the trial period ends it is one month. Yours says nothing about that?

Does your field have a collective bargaining agreement? Often the notice periods are defined there (probably without the possibility to deviate).

I have no idea I was meaning to find out... It's IT/Software Development. I guess it should have?

[betelgeuse]

I don't know if this helps, but my contract directly states that notice time for quitting/being fired is one day during first 4 months (the trial period), and after the trial period ends it is one month. Yours says nothing about that?

Does your field have a collective bargaining agreement? Often the notice periods are defined there (probably without the possibility to deviate).

I have no idea I was meaning to find out... It's IT/Software Development. I guess it should have?

If you are under this one, then notice period must be at least two weeks. However, since you don't know and employers have some possibility in shopping for one, it's impossible to say which one it really is (if any).

http://teknologiateollisuus.fi/sites/de ... sion_0.pdf

[Samer2010]

I just wanna let you know that I just had a call with the union's lawyer and he literally confirmed that notice period articles onto contract apply and become effective ONLY after the trial/probation period has elapsed.

He has also confirmed that termination of an employment during the trial/probation period can be done by either party on the same day/minute - The ONLY condition here is that there shouldn't be any inappropriate/discriminatory grounds to terminate that employment. NO notice period applies ever during trial/probation period.

Once again, have a great deal of respect for both of you and I appreciate your time and knowledge that you put into this forum, and I have always learnt and will always learn from you guys !