Racism In Finland

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rinso
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Re: Racism In Finland

Post by rinso » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:00 pm

Class Rex wrote:I'm a Persian guy from Iran, whom has lived and grew up in England since the age of 10. I'm now 26, and only moved to Finland less than a year ago cause of family purposes. I have to be honest sometimes the way some people talk to me is really freaking embarrassing and rude, like I get on a bus and the driver refuses to answer me in English and says this is Finland; or another geologist elderly chap, as soon as he discovers that I was born in Iran, he accuses me of terrorism and terrorist activities? WTF?!?!?! I'm not even a Muslim, but even if I was that's no way to treat people!

I mean seriously, is this a common thing over here in Finland? Cause I'll tell you one thing, it is really upsetting me and it's making me feel like going back to the UK.

I'd like to read your opinions on this matter.
There is some racism in Finland, but compared to other countries it is not bad.
But with the influx of immigrants and the increased attention to problems the situation will not get better soon.
If it is upsetting you, you should learn to live with it (just ignore it) or indeed move back.

A lot of Finns don't like to speak a foreign language (although they can). So refusing to speak english is not per se a racism thing.



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Rip
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Re: Racism In Finland

Post by Rip » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:30 pm

Class Rex wrote:I get on a bus and the driver refuses to answer me in English and says this is Finland
The language skills of actually Finnish bus drivers aren't probably that great. I have no idea how polite or not you or he were during the situation, but the underlying fact may be that it would have been very difficult or impossible for himto give a proper answer in English.
or another geologist elderly chap, as soon as he discovers that I was born in Iran, he accuses me of terrorism and terrorist activities? WTF?!?!?!
No excuse for that (at least if you weren't in heated argument already earlier)
I mean seriously, is this a common thing over here in Finland?
You've been here long enough that you should start have an answer. Honestly, it would be hard for me to know well about things that are on the level of petty insults.
You did come here in a bit of unfortunate time, when people that look roughly like you (our receptions here may be less than precise) came here in tens of thousands to live on public expense and at least often blatantly lying about themselves. It may not be fair that people are more suspicious towards you as a consequence, it is not unreasonable either.
Last edited by Rip on Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Beep_Boop
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Re: Racism In Finland

Post by Beep_Boop » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:16 pm

I'll give the same answer I give every time this topics comes up.

I don't agree with roger_roger's or Rip's explanation. There is racism in Finland. It's not the media, it's not the influx of refugees (although it's a factor), and it's TV propaganda. Racism and xenophobia aren't viruses that infected the pure and innocent people of Finland. Some people just truly believe other races and ethnicity are inferior to theirs, and that has nothing to do with TV. Racism has existed in the world for thousands of years. As long as there has been races, there has been racism.
Now, is racism in Finland as bad as in India, South Africa, or south/south-east Asia? Nope, not even close. But why even talk about that? This forum is about Finland not about racism research in other countries.

Long story short: There's some xenophobia, it's not that bad, it's unlikely that it'll be life-threatening or anything like that. It's annoying sometimes, especially when I bike a bit outside the city boundaries, or by bouncers in bars, or in the metro, etc.
You either get used to it, or just give up and bye bye. I got used to it.
Every case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online.

Talvenloppu
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Re: Racism In Finland

Post by Talvenloppu » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:14 pm

Have to pitch in here as I disagree with most of the replies you've had so far. Sadly I find in my experience such replies typical of replies given in Finland to this issue. My apologies for the length of my reply - "If I had had more time I would have written less".

There used to be a time when West Indians would say there was no such thing as a gay black man. It's a bit like that here in Finland. Denial here is more a badge of honour than a problem. Sometimes it is excused as a byproductof "pragmatism". Often it's just an excuse. So it is that older Finns consider themselves, en masse, to be above racism, while younger Finns imagine themselves a new breed, free of such things.

But xenophobia, the fear of things seen as foreign or strange, imo describes a universal human characteristic, something quite natural but gone mad. The problem comes when this fear is exploited for political ends. As Goebbels noted, the only way to get a farmer to go to war, when the best he could hope for is to return to his farm alive, is to convince him there is some external threat. Racism, the idea that some people are inherently less human that "ourselves", serves to unify people by encouraging them to see "strangeness" itself as the threat. This provides an easy answer. It's simple and so readily understood and it obscures the real issues, granting the politician promoting it public acclaim and .... power!

In the UK, mass immigration was initiated after WW2 directly by the UK government in order to staff especially the public transport sectors. This didn't stop politicians later accusing those same immigrants of "stealing British jobs". This same process has been followed by Finnish politicians: reaching abroad for workers for the health service, for berry picking, and so on, while at the same time blaming those immigrants for Finland's economic troubles.

The stumbling block in Finland is that Finns refuse to recognise there is a problem. "We're nervous..", "We don't understand..", "We want our traditions.." etc., are accepted without further question as justification for racist behaviours. As there is no real comprehension of racism the challenge of addressing it is not faced.

The leader of PerusSuomalainen (PS), an ethno-nationalist party that keeps denying it, is now the Finnish minister for defence/foreign affairs (?!?!) and was deputy prime minister. For me that is a pretty good, and very worrying summary of the situation here. In Finland perhaps racism has to some extent gone back into the closet as after PS success in the elections people got to see their "basic" quality in action. Support for the Soldiers of Odin has dwindled and there was some decent opposition to them, from women at least. TV5 has been broadcasting a Finnish film about the immigrant experience of Finland. It's called "Muutoksii" http://classic.telkku.com/program/show/2016062321209. Unfortunately the film is so stark and emotionally brutal, to the point of numb carelessness, that few will have the stomach to endure watching it! Signs of hope? On the other side of the North Sea, UKIP, the British equivalent of PS, was also swept to success in the Brexit poll yesterday by racism. The outcome of that is already, proving catastrophic, as was universally forecast. Will Finland learn anything from this?

Racism is understandable not excusable, and while Finns don't find the courage to look in the mirror and accept their human frailties, it will increase. I don't know if Finland is worse than the UK but it certainly feels like it. I worked in inner city areas in the UK but never even heard of the sort of complacent "routine racism" I have in Finland. If not actually embraced, racism is tolerated here. TV advertisements show here that would not be allowed in the UK, but their racial stereotypes are considered amusing here, like the Black and White Minstrels were in 1960's Britain.

We just have to speak out hope this encourages others to also speak out. This is what has always driven humanitarian change, but doing so in the intensely private world of Finland is hard.

AldenG
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Re: Racism In Finland

Post by AldenG » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:58 pm

roger_roger wrote: Yes, Finland have learned its possible to exit from EU, be prepared you'll hear chants of #FIxit pretty soon.

I have to disagree with you that Brexit was UKIP's call, the conservatives and all leaning right are the partner in the crime. Farage was just goat head in it. Albeit, the war was won by racists and xenophobic stances.

With racism in rise, 2016 marks dark year in history for the victory of racism; first with Brexit, now racist Trump will be elected US president, next NExit and DKxit on the line, Finns will surely coy the idea of FIxit.

But overall everything is not that dark, I'm sitting back and watching the improvements on Scotland, N.Ireland and Irish unification, lots more to come.
Because if there's one thing that Finland indisputably is, it is the peer of Great Britain in terms of history, capital resources, intellectual resources, innovation, diversity of ideas, cultures, and ethnicities, open debate, international recognition, prestige, savoir-faire, and all that other stuff -- NOT. It does have a spirit of fierce self-reliance, but that is not enough in the geoeconopolitics of today's world. Finland needs to enter NATO, not exit the EU.

Finland has far more in common with Scotland, and look where Scotland is headed. They didn't waste a moment making their intentions clear. And if this Brexit idiocy comes to fruition, I'll applaud both Scotland scrambling into the EU and the unification of Ireland.

I know what kinds of clowns the Eurocrats are. But breaking up is not the solution. Booting the idiots out of office is the solution. Maybe the British vote together with a radical surge in other national exit movements will become the catalyst for that, and for substantive reform.

Class Rex, I'll bet you can't see an ounce of irony in writing what you wrote here after what you wrote in your Wingman thread. You remind me of Donald Trump for the obvious reason.
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.

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Pursuivant
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Re: Racism In Finland

Post by Pursuivant » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:29 pm

Class Rex, why the hell would a bus driver need to answer you in English? In Finland? You imperialist prick!
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

Valta
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Re: Racism In Finland

Post by Valta » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:02 am

Class Rex wrote:I'm a Persian guy from Iran, whom has lived and grew up in England since the age of 10. I'm now 26, and only moved to Finland less than a year ago cause of family purposes. I have to be honest sometimes the way some people talk to me is really freaking embarrassing and rude, like I get on a bus and the driver refuses to answer me in English and says this is Finland; or another geologist elderly chap, as soon as he discovers that I was born in Iran, he accuses me of terrorism and terrorist activities? WTF?!?!?! I'm not even a Muslim, but even if I was that's no way to treat people!

I mean seriously, is this a common thing over here in Finland? Cause I'll tell you one thing, it is really upsetting me and it's making me feel like going back to the UK.

I'd like to read your opinions on this matter.
LMAO! The same sexist asshat who created the "wingman needed" thread is now whining about racism. Go back to the UK and stay there. Or Iran, that would be even better.

leisl
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Re: Racism In Finland

Post by leisl » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:28 pm

Pursuivant wrote:Class Rex, why the hell would a bus driver need to answer you in English? In Finland? You imperialist prick!
Sums it up really.

I was wondering if he had grown up with servants and took the same attitude to anyone driving a bus as being someone who should lick his shoes and serve him.

How about, you're the lowly foreigner, what sort of pig are you for not speaking Finnish to the driver?

Intralux
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Re: Racism In Finland

Post by Intralux » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:57 pm

How would you feel if white people started flooding into Tibet by the hundreds of thousands? People are getting pissed off that multiculturalism is being forced onto the West, and the West only. There is a conspiracy to weaken and divide our nations through mass immigration. To create a mongoloid race with no identity or heritage (easier to control). Research the Kalergi Plan if you don't believe me, it's all documented.


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