Hi,
I am looking to purchase a used car from a showroom (as opposed to a private sale) in the Helsinki region. I understand the car industry is struggling like many of the industries in Finland currently - which puts buyers in a strong negotiation position!
I would like to know what kind of discounts are considered standard e.g. 10% off list price -> so a car advertised for 15k should be available for 13,5k? Are there any other incentives salespeople are likely to agree to e.g. cheap finance or insurance deals?
I look forward to hearing your thoughts and experiences!
Buying a Car from a Showroom
Re: Buying a Car from a Showroom
http://www.autoalantiedotuskeskus.fi/tilastot/ennusteetBurtonBenson wrote:Hi,
I am looking to purchase a used car from a showroom (as opposed to a private sale) in the Helsinki region. I understand the car industry is struggling like many of the industries in Finland currently - which puts buyers in a strong negotiation position!
I would like to know what kind of discounts are considered standard e.g. 10% off list price -> so a car advertised for 15k should be available for 13,5k? Are there any other incentives salespeople are likely to agree to e.g. cheap finance or insurance deals?
I look forward to hearing your thoughts and experiences!
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Re: Buying a Car from a Showroom
My experiences were not good. I would book test drives and turn up and find they had sold the test drive car and none was available. Also the delivery times were ridiculous (9months) and the dealers were guessing what kinds of cars people wanted to buy (spec, colour, engine) and placing orders for those. if you chose one of those cars then it would be available in six months instead of nine months for choosing the options yourself. I had only seen this kind of dealer driven ordering for a few demo models before, not expecting them to apply it to the majority of cars they were selling.
I gave up the whole idea of buying a new car from a finnish dealer and went to Germany and bought a used BMW 5 series from there. They really tax the extras on cars highly here (not sure why adaptive headlights should have a higher tax rate on a 3 litre engine compared to the same headlights added to the same car with a 2 litre engine. This seems especially stupid for those extras which contribute to safer driving like blind spot radar .. is the government deliberately trying to discourage people from buying such features? ). When you buy from Germany you avoid such nonsense and my car has extras you would never find on a car here (because nobody pays 50k for a new 5 series and then an additional 25k for extras due to progressive finnish car tax rates).
For the same money I ended up deciding between a new Qashquai or 3 year old 5 series with 6 cylinder engine, self parking, blind spot radar, five cameras, adaptive headlights, memory and massage seats, lane change warning and speed limit sign recognition, widescreen navigation etc .. it was an easy choice to make especially considering the attitude of finnish car dealers (buy from us since where else are you going to go - well answer to that question was go to Germany!
I gave up the whole idea of buying a new car from a finnish dealer and went to Germany and bought a used BMW 5 series from there. They really tax the extras on cars highly here (not sure why adaptive headlights should have a higher tax rate on a 3 litre engine compared to the same headlights added to the same car with a 2 litre engine. This seems especially stupid for those extras which contribute to safer driving like blind spot radar .. is the government deliberately trying to discourage people from buying such features? ). When you buy from Germany you avoid such nonsense and my car has extras you would never find on a car here (because nobody pays 50k for a new 5 series and then an additional 25k for extras due to progressive finnish car tax rates).
For the same money I ended up deciding between a new Qashquai or 3 year old 5 series with 6 cylinder engine, self parking, blind spot radar, five cameras, adaptive headlights, memory and massage seats, lane change warning and speed limit sign recognition, widescreen navigation etc .. it was an easy choice to make especially considering the attitude of finnish car dealers (buy from us since where else are you going to go - well answer to that question was go to Germany!
Re: Buying a Car from a Showroom
I guess I have to agree with roger_roger
It is my experience (last week and last year) that the (new) car industry is indeed struggling, but this does not mean that occasions get cheaper, in contrary, the sales of used cars is up compared to new cars.
Upon asking the sales man about this phenomena, he explained that most cars nowadays are quite good and stay good for a longer time than they used to a decade ago (I dare to question this but.... for arguments sake lets go with the idea) and a lot of people getting sacked in the last 6 years makes having a new expensive car too expensive.
so the result is that a lot of people sell the car and buy back a little smaller cheaper model. Since demand for used cars is up instead of down because of this, the price of a used car went up. A car dealer can almost ask what he wants (within reasonable limits) and is most of the time not even interested in the customers wishes.
Also take notice of the fact that the odometer can VERY EASILY be turned back with (almost) ALL new cars giving the seller an advantage (financially) here too (they use a Chinese device for this available at Ebay). So check the papers and service intervals and katsastus mileages, try to ask the previous owner about the history of the car (names and address can sometimes still be found on the papers in the car).
As an advice for a used car of ± 25000 , try to get the car for 1000 euro's cheaper than advertised (dealer has bought it for 1500 less than the sales price) and no extra registration costs or making drive ready costs, but settle for 800 less and a new periodic service job with a katsastus and 1 year full warranty. I managed to pull that one off, although few months later I found out he screwed me anyway because the car did not have the rain sensor as advertised
(never drove with rain in those months 
).
It is my experience (last week and last year) that the (new) car industry is indeed struggling, but this does not mean that occasions get cheaper, in contrary, the sales of used cars is up compared to new cars.
Upon asking the sales man about this phenomena, he explained that most cars nowadays are quite good and stay good for a longer time than they used to a decade ago (I dare to question this but.... for arguments sake lets go with the idea) and a lot of people getting sacked in the last 6 years makes having a new expensive car too expensive.
so the result is that a lot of people sell the car and buy back a little smaller cheaper model. Since demand for used cars is up instead of down because of this, the price of a used car went up. A car dealer can almost ask what he wants (within reasonable limits) and is most of the time not even interested in the customers wishes.
Also take notice of the fact that the odometer can VERY EASILY be turned back with (almost) ALL new cars giving the seller an advantage (financially) here too (they use a Chinese device for this available at Ebay). So check the papers and service intervals and katsastus mileages, try to ask the previous owner about the history of the car (names and address can sometimes still be found on the papers in the car).
As an advice for a used car of ± 25000 , try to get the car for 1000 euro's cheaper than advertised (dealer has bought it for 1500 less than the sales price) and no extra registration costs or making drive ready costs, but settle for 800 less and a new periodic service job with a katsastus and 1 year full warranty. I managed to pull that one off, although few months later I found out he screwed me anyway because the car did not have the rain sensor as advertised
(never drove with rain in those months ).If god would give us the source code, we could change the world
Re: Buying a Car from a Showroom
I had a great experience buying a used car from a dealer here. A 4 year old german import C class mercedes with a full, verifiable, main dealer service history. Immaculate body, not the tiniest bit of damage to the panels or paint and zero rust.
Walked in late in the afternoon, asked to test drive it and was offered it overnight if I wanted. Took it back the next morning, after checking the mileage and service history was good with a main dealer, filled in the paperwork and drove it home.
I didn't ask for any money off. The price was already in the right ballpark, or much better value when you add in the top level specification compared to the 'poverty' spec usually found on similarly priced 'Suomi auto' cars. Why some people think this adds any value to their rusty undercarriage and battered suspension I just don't know!
Instead I asked him to exchange the pretty okay tyres for new studded winter and summer tyres all 'round and to get an extra 2 years extension on their standard 12 month warranty, for which I'd pay 50%, giving 3 years in total. No problem, it was fairly easily agreed.
I discovered the Calyx engine heater wasn't working properly after a couple of days. It's okay, these things happen and they were immediately on the phone to get replacement arranged for me. In fact when I called to get it replaced, I asked for the DEFA branded heater which was twice the price. I checked that myself before I even called. They agreed to split the difference in the price of the two brands 50/50 and when I wanted it fitted by Veho, that was also no problem. They didn't push me to use a backstreet mechanic of their choosing.
Honestly, I couldn't fault them. I'll go there next time I want to change the car because places like that don't just accidentally give great service. I was also reasonable with them, not trying to push for money off just because of time of year, state of the car industry etc. They gave great value for money compared with some of the ridiculous 'offers' from other places.
Shop around, that's the main advice. If you find a dealer you think you'd like to work with, don't try to beat them up over a few hundred euro on a 25-30k+ purchase. Focus on the value they give via warranty and aftersales service and look for recommendations from people who have dealt with them. The extra couple of hundred a year over the payment term is money very well spent in many situations.
Walked in late in the afternoon, asked to test drive it and was offered it overnight if I wanted. Took it back the next morning, after checking the mileage and service history was good with a main dealer, filled in the paperwork and drove it home.
I didn't ask for any money off. The price was already in the right ballpark, or much better value when you add in the top level specification compared to the 'poverty' spec usually found on similarly priced 'Suomi auto' cars. Why some people think this adds any value to their rusty undercarriage and battered suspension I just don't know!
Instead I asked him to exchange the pretty okay tyres for new studded winter and summer tyres all 'round and to get an extra 2 years extension on their standard 12 month warranty, for which I'd pay 50%, giving 3 years in total. No problem, it was fairly easily agreed.
I discovered the Calyx engine heater wasn't working properly after a couple of days. It's okay, these things happen and they were immediately on the phone to get replacement arranged for me. In fact when I called to get it replaced, I asked for the DEFA branded heater which was twice the price. I checked that myself before I even called. They agreed to split the difference in the price of the two brands 50/50 and when I wanted it fitted by Veho, that was also no problem. They didn't push me to use a backstreet mechanic of their choosing.
Honestly, I couldn't fault them. I'll go there next time I want to change the car because places like that don't just accidentally give great service. I was also reasonable with them, not trying to push for money off just because of time of year, state of the car industry etc. They gave great value for money compared with some of the ridiculous 'offers' from other places.
Shop around, that's the main advice. If you find a dealer you think you'd like to work with, don't try to beat them up over a few hundred euro on a 25-30k+ purchase. Focus on the value they give via warranty and aftersales service and look for recommendations from people who have dealt with them. The extra couple of hundred a year over the payment term is money very well spent in many situations.
Re: Buying a Car from a Showroom
I wonder what katsastus does if it gets a car that has lower number in odometer than in previous inspection?Piet wrote:Also take notice of the fact that the odometer can VERY EASILY be turned back with (almost) ALL new cars giving the seller an advantage (financially) here too (they use a Chinese device for this available at Ebay). So check the papers and service intervals and katsastus mileages, try to ask the previous owner about the history of the car (names and address can sometimes still be found on the papers in the car).
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Re: Buying a Car from a Showroom
I think buying from Germany is worth if you get an expensive car like over 30k here or you want some special model/engine which is not available here. I was looking for example for a car 1-2 years old which is here 23-25k, in Germany with the same specs (maybe a bit more accessories) you can find it with 15-17k. To this you add 3-5k car tax (depends how new the car is and emissions), min 500€-1k to get from there (flight, hotel, rent a car for a day or so, driving back, ferry), winter tires 1k, heating 0.5-1k (depends what you get, it can be more for Webasto), registration here 200€. If you add the risk of something is wrong with the km, or even if you have warranty for few months maybe is valid just in Germany to the dealer you take it, and sum-up all the costs I don't think is worth the trouble... also if you already have a car you need to sell it yourself here which is not very easy..