Siellä on vai Siellä ovat

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Phineas
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:08 pm

Siellä on vai Siellä ovat

Post by Phineas » Wed May 08, 2019 4:00 pm

In working through Agi Risko's book "Beginner's Finnish" I came across
this sentence: "Siellä on varmasti isot ikkunat ja niistä ihana näköala."
(They're talking about their cabin on the Stockholm ferry.)

Why do we use "Siellä on" here instead of "Siellä ovat"? Is the construction
analogous to the possessive e.g. "Minulla on, sinulla on, . . .? Is it that there
are several windows but only one view from them?

How does one choose between "on" and "ovat" after "Siellä"?

Thank you in advance for help,
Steve



Siellä on vai Siellä ovat

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Retread
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:08 pm

Re: Siellä on vai Siellä ovat

Post by Retread » Wed May 08, 2019 11:14 pm

How does one choose between "on" and "ovat" after "Siellä"?
Asked my wife ... Siellä is singular (one place) so on not ovat. Ovat is plural.

I'm just the messenger!


Phineas
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:08 pm

Re: Siellä on vai Siellä ovat

Post by Phineas » Thu May 09, 2019 12:31 am

So does "siellä" (rather than "ikkunat") serve as the
logical subject of the sentence? And if that is the case,
is "siellä ovat" always incorrect?

Thank you, and please convey my thanks to your wife.
Steve


Phineas
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:08 pm

Re: Siellä on vai Siellä ovat

Post by Phineas » Fri May 10, 2019 2:39 am

If we are using "on" rather than "ovat" because we are
talking about an indefinite quantity, shouldn't "isot ikkunat"
be in the partitive?

Steve


necadam
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:57 am

Re: Siellä on vai Siellä ovat

Post by necadam » Sun May 12, 2019 1:41 pm

Retread wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 11:14 pm
How does one choose between "on" and "ovat" after "Siellä"?
Asked my wife ... Siellä is singular (one place) so on not ovat. Ovat is plural.

I'm just the messenger!
That's a very bad explanation indeed.


Phineas
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:08 pm

Re: Siellä on vai Siellä ovat

Post by Phineas » Sun May 12, 2019 2:05 pm

I have to agree. "Me" is plural, but we say "Meilla on . . . " when expressing
possession. I am still trying to figure this one out. According to Wiktionary,
"siellä" is the superessive adverbial case of of "se" and that it "resembles" the
adessive. So (I guess) by analogy based on the possessive construction, we use
"on." That would have been satisfied me, but I have found examples of "siellä ovat"
and "siellä on" in various documents written by native speakers.

Thank you for the reply,
Steve
Last edited by Phineas on Sun May 12, 2019 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Phineas
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:08 pm

Re: Siellä on vai Siellä ovat

Post by Phineas » Sun May 12, 2019 4:06 pm

Just fixing the typo: That should have been "Meilla" rather than "Meila."

Steve


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