Brexit - Residents card

Mackee23 · Post by **Mackee23** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:26 am

Hi, I'm just looking for a bit of advice or wondering if there is anyone here in a similar situation...

I am a British citizen and am married to a Finn. We currently live in the UK, but are planning on moving to Finland. We plan on leaving the UK in December and spending Christmas and New Year in Finland with family before going backpacking for a few months. We should arrive back in Finland on April 1st 2020.

Brexit is of course making things more complicated. I have previously worked in Finland, but obviously now I'm going to need a residents card. I read on the migri site that because we have lived as a family in another EU country I can apply for a residents card, which is faster and cheaper than a residents permit. The whole issue is worrying to me, I would like to get it sorted out as soon as possible.

I'm wondering if I can or should apply for the permit in advance, before I leave the UK. Can I apply before October 31st? Despite the fact that the UK has not technically left the EU yet? They estimate that it takes 1-3 months to process, but there could be a rush after Brexit. If I apply at in the beginning of November it might not be fully processed by the time I leave the UK.

Should I just wait till I return form backpacking in April? If I apply in Finland do I need to leave again before I can be granted the resident card?

UPDATE:
Thanks to the delays with Brexit and the general mess of the whole situation, I was able to apply for "Right of Residence" as an EU citizen. I applied online from the UK and paid €54. Today I attended my appointment with the Finnish Immigration Service in Tampere. They checked my application and my original documents and within 20 minutes I had my certificate of residency. I did not have to prove my income or financial situation, because I'm married to a Finn. Our marriage was already registered in Finland and I already have a Finnish ID number from when I worked in Finland in 2014, so that made everything really easy. So I will now I am free to reside in Finland after Brexit.

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betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:23 am

Mackee23 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:26 am
Hi, I'm just looking for a bit of advice or wondering if there is anyone here in a similar situation...

I am a British citizen and am married to a Finn. We currently live in the UK, but are planning on moving to Finland. We plan on leaving the UK in December and spending Christmas and New Year in Finland with family before going backpacking for a few months. We should arrive back in Finland on April 1st 2020.

Brexit is of course making things more complicated. I have previously worked in Finland, but obviously now I'm going to need a residents card. I read on the migri site that because we have lived as a family in another EU country I can apply for a residents card, which is faster and cheaper than a residents permit. The whole issue is worrying to me, I would like to get it sorted out as soon as possible.

I'm wondering if I can or should apply for the permit in advance, before I leave the UK. Can I apply before October 31st? Despite the fact that the UK has not technically left the EU yet? They estimate that it takes 1-3 months to process, but there could be a rush after Brexit. If I apply at in the beginning of November it might not be fully processed by the time I leave the UK.

Should I just wait till I return form backpacking in April? If I apply in Finland do I need to leave again before I can be granted the resident card?

You can’t apply for the card in advance. You can only register right of residence once resident in Finland. However, under a no deal brexit this route closes. After that you apply for a residence permit which can be done in advance.

sijazme · Post by **sijazme** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:59 am

Mackee23 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:26 am
I am a British citizen and am married to a Finn. We currently live in the UK, but are planning on moving to Finland. We plan on leaving the UK in December and spending Christmas and New Year in Finland with family before going backpacking for a few months. We should arrive back in Finland on April 1st 2020.

Brexit will have little to no affect on your resident permit application because in Finland your wife will be exercising her rights as an EU citizen and you will just be a dependent. When UK leaves the EU, the citizens will be treated like any other non-EU country so you won't have rights of your own but you can derive free movement rights from your EU spouse. You can apply for a residence card under EU law only if your Finn wife and you exercise EU free movement rights in an EU country other than Finland. If your Finn wife brings her spouse to her own country then your case will be subject to local national laws and you will be applying for a resident permit (instead of a card). You should arrive in Finland and register your marriage at the local maistraatti.fi office and then use that registration document and marriage certificate to apply for a permit. You may also need to give fingerprints at your appointment so a good idea is to not go backpacking before you do that.

For UK citizens, there is a famous case dealing with issue spouse movement within EU. Google search "Surinder Singh" to find out more about case law on movement within EU. In principle, the Surinder Singh route applies to all EU citizens, not just UK citizens. For example, a French husband could bring his Mexican wife into France by exercising his treaty rights in Spain.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:31 am

sijazme wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:59 am

Mackee23 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:26 am
I am a British citizen and am married to a Finn. We currently live in the UK, but are planning on moving to Finland. We plan on leaving the UK in December and spending Christmas and New Year in Finland with family before going backpacking for a few months. We should arrive back in Finland on April 1st 2020.
Brexit will have little to no affect on your resident permit application because in Finland your wife will be exercising her rights as an EU citizen and you will just be a dependent. When UK leaves the EU, the citizens will be treated like any other non-EU country so you won't have rights of your own but you can derive free movement rights from your EU spouse. You can apply for a residence card under EU law only if your Finn wife and you exercise EU free movement rights in an EU country other than Finland. If your Finn wife brings her spouse to her own country then your case will be subject to local national laws and you will be applying for a resident permit (instead of a card). You should arrive in Finland and register your marriage at the local maistraatti.fi office and then use that registration document and marriage certificate to apply for a permit. You may also need to give fingerprints at your appointment so a good idea is to not go backpacking before you do that.

For UK citizens, there is a famous case dealing with issue spouse movement within EU. Google search "Surinder Singh" to find out more about case law on movement within EU. In principle, the Surinder Singh route applies to all EU citizens, not just UK citizens. For example, a French husband could bring his Mexican wife into France by exercising his treaty rights in Spain.

Iirc spouse of Finn needs RP. At least that was the case in some time ago. That puts other EU nationals in better position when moving to Finland with non-eu spouse than Finns.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:44 am

Upphew wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:31 am
Iirc spouse of Finn needs RP. At least that was the case in some time ago. That puts other EU nationals in better position when moving to Finland with non-eu spouse than Finns.

Incorrect. Check this out in the Aliens Act:

Lukua sovelletaan Suomen kansalaisen perheenjäseneen, jos Suomen kansalainen on käyttänyt vapaan liikkuvuuden direktiivin mukaista liikkumisoikeuttaan asettumalla toiseen jäsenvaltioon ja perheenjäsen tulee Suomeen hänen mukanaan tai seuraa häntä myöhemmin. (21.5.2010/432)

https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 01#L10P153

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:49 am

betelgeuse wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:44 am

Upphew wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:31 am
Iirc spouse of Finn needs RP. At least that was the case in some time ago. That puts other EU nationals in better position when moving to Finland with non-eu spouse than Finns.
Incorrect. Check this out in the Aliens Act:

Lukua sovelletaan Suomen kansalaisen perheenjäseneen, jos Suomen kansalainen on käyttänyt vapaan liikkuvuuden direktiivin mukaista liikkumisoikeuttaan asettumalla toiseen jäsenvaltioon ja perheenjäsen tulee Suomeen hänen mukanaan tai seuraa häntä myöhemmin. (21.5.2010/432)
https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/ ... 01#L10P153

Thanks for correction.

Mackee23 · Post by **Mackee23** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:36 am

You can apply for a residence card under EU law only if your Finn wife and you exercise EU free movement rights in an EU country other than Finland. If your Finn wife brings her spouse to her own country then your case will be subject to local national laws and you will be applying for a resident permit (instead of a card). You should arrive in Finland and register your marriage at the local maistraatti.fi office and then use that registration document and marriage certificate to apply for a permit. You may also need to give fingerprints at your appointment so a good idea is to not go backpacking before you do that.

Migri website says
Whether you need a residence permit or a residence card depends on whether your Finnish family member has used his or her right of free movement. In other words, whether he or she has lived in another EU Member State outside Finland for longer than three months. If you have lived together in another EU Member State, or otherwise lived in a partnership or led a family life in that country, you may receive a residence card.

As a non-Eu citizen I would meet the requirements for a residents card. A residents card can be applied for in advance from your home country and you can be interviewed and have your finger prints taken etc. At the Finnish embassy. So I'd be eligible to apply for this from November 1st. They estimate it would take 1-3 months to process.

Our marriage was registered in Finland in 2017. So that's not an issue. I already have a national identity number and a bank account in Finland, so I'm hoping that my application could be processed quickly. My wife registered her UK address with the Finnish authorities years ago, so Finland their own records of our relationship and proof that we have lived together. I'm going to call the embassy today for advice.

Mackee23 · Post by **Mackee23** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:41 am

I guess my main fear is that there might be issues when I try to enter Finland after backpacking with a one way ticket. After Brexit I will only be allowed to stay in Finland for 90 days without a visa. I know I can stay longer if they are processing my application. But I'm worried that they will want proof of onward travel when I enter the country.

arfhamza · Post by **arfhamza** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:15 am

Check this article on migri webpage

https://migri.fi/en/article/-/asset_pub ... imman-pian

Mackee23 · Post by **Mackee23** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:34 am

arfhamza wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:15 am
Check this article on migri webpage

https://migri.fi/en/article/-/asset_pub ... imman-pian

So great that they have finally updated this information. Only problem with this is that I would need to be in Finland before October 31st. Currently the plan is to go to Finland on December 17th.

The embassy said I need to apply for a residents card when I arrive in Finland, so I think I will have to wait until April before applying.

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